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Re: Re: Re: infor

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<BODY>I see. Just curious. Actually have you ever tried the beneficial 
nematodes? They take care of all lawn grubs, including Jap beetles which had not 
made it here. We have other kinds though and it gets those too. It also controls 
fire ants, iris borers and flea larvae. Good stuff. Pam Evans Kemp, TX zone 8A 
----- Original Message ----- From: Kitty Sent: 6/19/2004 3:13:00 PM To: 
gardenchat@hort.net Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor &gt; Pam, &gt; You must 
realize you are an exception. Most people will not spend 16 hours &gt; a day 
watering their plants. Many people will not live with plants with &gt; holes in 
the leaves if there is a way to prevent it, organic or not. When I &gt; said not 
feasible, I meant not feasible for the general population; I wasn't &gt; 
referring to myself. I'm content to live with some destruction, others &gt; 
won't or can't. Right now I've got a bug here I found on one of my lilies &gt; 
last year. There was just one last year. I posted pictures, also showed to &gt; 
our Hort Ed. While trying to get an ID, it destroyed the plant. This year &gt; I 
found 4 of them on a Deutzia. Snipped the whole stem, bagged it and took &gt; it 
in to CES. He said possibly lacebug, but I'm not so sure. Just found 2 &gt; more 
on another lily. This bug will not go away with a shot of water, he &gt; needs 
stronger measures and I'm not about to let him go crazy on my lilies. &gt; 
Without an ID, though, it's hard to know what to use. &gt; &gt; Anyway, back to 
straight organic. I don't know if you have Japanese Beetles &gt; there, but 
nothing organic is going to stop them. You can try Milky Spore, &gt; but once 
the grubs die off there's nothing for MS to feed on and it goes &gt; away. Even 
if it did persist, they'll just wing it over to your nice plants &gt; from your 
neighbor's untreated yard. &gt; &gt; I firmly believe in IPM and use even less 
than that warrants. I'm fairly &gt; close to organic, including my fertilizers. 
But most people won't spend $30 &gt; / bag to cover 2000 sq ft of lawn. Shoot, 
my neighbor won't spend $5. &gt; &gt; For the activist, all organic is possible. 
For the perectionist it is not &gt; feasible. For the the general population of 
gardeners out there who have a &gt; garden as one of their many pastimes, who 
enjoy puttering in their garden &gt; occasionally, who maybe just are determined 
that their landscape be &gt; presentable, but have no intention of reading up on 
organic methods, it &gt; isn't going to happen. &gt; &gt; Ortho does too good a 
job marketing their chemicals. People who just want &gt; the problem to go away 
are quick to grab "Bug-B-Gone" I've not read the &gt; label, but just the 
thought that they want every bug to be gone scares me &gt; because I know it 
must detrimentally affect the good bug population as well. &gt; But not everyone 
has the level of interest that many of us share on this &gt; list. So many 
people have no more than an hour or 2 a week to deal with &gt; their landscape 
and it is not realistic to expect that they will strive for &gt; the organic 
solution. &gt; &gt; Kitty &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; From: 

 To: <gardenchat@HORT.NET>&gt; Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 
1:10 PM &gt; Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Not feasible 
where darlin'?? I've been all organic since I started the &gt; &gt; 
bird/butterfly sanctuary 5-6 years ago and was 80% organic before. It &gt; &gt; 
works here at least. Joanne across the street does the same. Is it &gt; &gt; 
different there? &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Pam Evans &gt; &gt; Kemp, TX &gt; 
&gt; zone 8A &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; &gt; From: Kitty &gt; 
&gt; Sent: 6/19/2004 9:19:43 AM &gt; &gt; To: gardenchat@hort.net &gt; &gt; 
Subject: Re: [CHAT] infor &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ceres, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; I have used Merit a couple of times with good results to protect my &gt; 
birch &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; tree from Japanese Beetles. I don't know how much 
bee activity there &gt; would &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; be around birch catkins. 
Merit had

 been suggested by our Hort Ed as

 a &gt; safer &gt; &gt;



  &gt; &gt; &gt; product than those previously used, but no product of

  this sort is &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; completely safe. I

  was concerned about the affect to soil organisms in &gt; my &gt; &gt;

  &gt; &gt;



  &gt; application.

  &gt; &gt;

  &gt; &gt;

  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;

  &gt; &gt;

  I've been on amessage

  board where,

  when the subject of




   was raised, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; folks came out vehemently against it for



   sorts of reasons. But  the &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; objections came



   people that I would guess to be totally organic &gt; types. &gt; &gt; &gt;



   &gt; In a better world everything would be organic, but with what


   we have  &gt; today, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; it's not feasible.







   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I no longer use Merit


   but this is mainly because I am a lazy gardener &gt;  and I


   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; don't resort to insecticides unless absolutely necessary.



   &gt; Beetles &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; seem to have declined in number



   the past few




   years, but that is &gt; probably &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; cyclical. In a couple

 more years


   I may have to resort to such  measures



   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; again. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;



   Kitty  &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message










   &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 


   From: <CERSGARDEN@AOL.COM>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;


   To: <gardenchat@HORT.NET>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: 
Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:38 AM &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [CHAT] infor 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
I am a lurker on an iris list. I am sending a message copied from it. &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; What &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; are your thoughts? I have 
never used this product nor have I &gt; researched &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; use of. The writer seems to be a very 
knowledgeable member of this &gt; list. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Ceres &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Generally systemic 
insecticides are considered to be reasonably safe &gt; to &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; pollinators since they don't get excessive exposure via the pollen or 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; nectar, but Merit may be a bit different. The 
active ingredient &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (imidacloprid) has two actions. 
One, at higher doses, is lethal to &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; insects. &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; At lower doses it can affect behavior without directly 
killing the &gt; insect, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; such as stopping aphids 
from feeding. It is the behavioral effects &gt; that &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
are &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; of concern regarding bees since it is claimed 
that imidacloprid can &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; disrupt &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; foraging activities.-- in fact some of it's uses were banned in France &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; because of complaints from beekeepers. Bayer (who make 
it) deny these &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; claims based on what seems like 
good research, and there haven't been &gt; many &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
complaints about its impact on bees in the US as far as I know. This &gt; is 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; all &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; complicated by the 
fact that bee populations in the US have been &gt; decimated &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; by Varroa mites, and if colonies do decline, it could well be mites 
&gt; that &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; are causing it. So, as usual, the 
situation is murky, and it depends &gt; who &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; you 
believe. There are some interesting websites on this if anyone is &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; interested in digging deeper. I have a couple of research 
projects at &gt; the &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; moment on this compound and 
its effects on insects, so the area is of &gt; some &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; interest to me and all of this may be more than you wanted to know!. &gt; 
Bob &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hollingworth. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
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