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Re: Politics/Bonnie


Bonnie, it's disturbing!  Politics is the give and take of ideas not dogma.
Certainly my views have shifted after hearing a well presented case and as I
age my beliefs blend and mellow.  Frankly, it's the extremes that irritate
me on both sides.  Whoever doesn't agree with them are unthinking, godless
and unAmerican.  I hate that!

I believe the media has much to do with that.  Instead of thoughtful
discussion they have to get into these loud, bashing arguments calling each
other names.  Just part of the dumbing down of America.  "What should we
watch tonight honey the Worlds Wrestling Federation or the Riley Report?"
Pretty pathetic!

One last thing since I'm on a roll:  If 40% are rock solid on one side or
the other and only 6% are undecided and with only 50% of those elegable to
vote actually doing so then roughly 26% of the electorate dictate to the
rest of the country the direction we will follow for at least the next four
years.  NOW THAT IS SCARY!  My God people do your civic duty, study the
issues and vote.

David Franzman
A Touch of the Tropics
www.atouchofthetropics.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics


> I agree that there seems to be growing intolerance for differing ideas and
> that seems to be supported by some of the political analysis groups.
Seems
> that around 40% of the voters are stuck on each side with little movement
> back and forth no matter what the news or issues.  Both parties target the
> true 6% undecided...now THAT is scary for a democracy.   (Jesse, are you
> truly in that 6%?)
>
> Husband and I went to see Fahrenheit 911 this afternoon...very
> interesting...biased but definitely thought provoking.  I had heard about
> some of the Saudi connections on a talk show a month back...no one knew
> what the caller was talking about...there is also a book on this issue in
> addition to Moore's take.
>
> Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: David Franzman <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Date: 06/28/2004 1:51:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics
> >
> > Let me add something to this.  Bonnie I agree with you that politics is
a
> > difficult subject in a gardening group.  I enjoy it because I enjoy
> politics
> > and the discussion of ideas.  I don't add too much to it though because
I
> > recognize that there are different ideas out there and not everybody
likes
> > debates.
> >
> > However, none of us had the tag "Re-Elect Nimrod and Ripoff for
President"
> > until Liz did which was on her first message she sent to the group.
> Perhaps
> > what she doesn't like is the fact that many of us don't agree with her
> > position instead of the content and/or subject.  You see I find a
growing
> > lack of respect for differing views in this country from both the right
> and
> > left but I'm thoroughly sick of those who profess to be conservative
> calling
> > all of us in the middle or slightly left of center as lefties, liberals
or
> > commies and unAmerican to boot.
> >
> > Liz, if you didn't like politics mixed into the garden soil then why did
> > your initial message have the Re-elect message at the bottom?  Go and
see
> > the movie!  Stretch your mind.  Keep an open mind and try and see what
the
> > other side sees sometimes.  It may not change your mind but it might
give
> > you a different perspective.
> >
> > David Franzman
> > A Touch of the Tropics
> > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> >
> >
> > > Bonnie, Liz, and All -
> > > Here is the original posting:
> > > "I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> > Everyone
> > > should make an effort to see it."
> > > The responses were short items about ticket prices, distances to
> theatres,
> > > plans to see it, and acquisition news.
> > > There was no mention of "stupidity" in regard to opposing views.  In
> fact,
> > > no opposing views were voiced.  I don't see any harm in someone
> suggesting
> > a
> > > movie to the group.
> > > In fact, I fully intend to see Two Brothers when it gets to a theatre
> > close
> > > to me.  I hope the dog-lovers out there aren't offended by my saying
so.
> > >
> > > Kitty
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Bonnie & Bill Morgan" <wmorgan972@ameritech.net>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> > >
> > >
> > > > Liz, not all of us are left in more than our handedness.  It does
> appear
> > > > that those with left political leanings are more vocal at this point
> > than
> > > > those of us in the middle or leaning a little more right
politically.
> > I
> > > am
> > > > not a fan of political name calling and bashing either, regardless
of
> > > party.
> > > > I do think that while there is freedom of speech, courtesy would
> dictate
> > > > that the political discussions should be done privately rather than
in
> > our
> > > > normally friendly little garden chat group.
> > > >
> > > > Keeping it in this forum does make those of us with a different
> > viewpoint
> > > > feel as though we are being told we are "stupid" for seeing another
> side
> > > of
> > > > things by the tone of recent discussions.  I don't carry on about
> Kerry,
> > > or
> > > > Kennedy (only to name a few)  or the things I find so distasteful on
> the
> > > > left side, because I consider you all as friends and as individuals
> > > capable
> > > > of having independent ideas and I wouldn't want to make you think I
> > didn't
> > > > hold you in high esteem even though I disagree with much of what
I've
> > > heard
> > > > politically on this list lately.
> > > >
> > > > I do love all of you out there, regardless of your politics, but I
too
> > am
> > > > tiring of the one-sided nature of the political discussions as of
> late.
> > > > Could we all get back to more "friendly" and less political topics?
> > Even
> > > > topics regarding gardening, the ecology, natural resources and bills
> > > > associated with that would be O.K. if it were couched as something
for
> > all
> > > > to consider rather than laying blame and/or pointing fingers to this
> > > > individual or party as if everything you read or hear in the press
> were
> > > > fact.  There are two sides to every story.  And while we
finger-point
> to
> > > > some unnamed evil, remember that our society is what WE make of it
and
> > if
> > > we
> > > > wanted only one view, we could relax and let someone become
dictator.
> > > >
> > > > O.K., I'm off my soapbox.
> > > >
> > > > Blessings,
> > > > Bonnie (SW OH - zone 5)
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]
On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of Elizabeth Gessler
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:43 PM
> > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > Subject: RE: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > >
> > > > Can someone please sned me the instructions to unsubscribe from this
> > list.
> > > I
> > > > wasn't aware that this was a politic list with obvious very left
> > leanings.
> > > > Liz in PA
> > > >
> > > > Re-elect Bush-Cheney in 2004
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]
On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of Kitty
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:49 PM
> > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > >
> > > > I really would love to see it, almost went to the first showing
today
> at
> > > > 11:55.  But I reluctantly decided I couldn't spend the $10 it would
> cost
> > > me
> > > > on a movie.
> > > > I was thrilled to read, "When Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in New York on
> > > > Wednesday, it broke box-office records, beating out even Men in
Black
> > with
> > > > wall-to-wall sold-out shows"
> > > >
> > > > Kitty
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: <Zemuly@aol.com>
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > Subject: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> > > > Everyone
> > > > > should make an effort to see it.
> > > > > zem
> > > > >
> > > > >
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