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Re: Documentary about 9/11


I agree with your reservations, Kitty.

The main problem with most conspiracy theories--including this one--is they require too many people to remain too quiet for too long. Sworn secrecy among best buds has a half-life of about a week; sworn secrecy under penalty of incarceration [as, say, a grand jury proceeding] has a half-life of about a month.

That human streak of insecurity and suspected insignificance ever nudges would be conspirators and other holders of arcana toward personal aggrandizement and their 15 minutes of fame [or infamy, as the case may be].

That said, there is a whole pile of stuff in that documentary that can't be dismissed as either wrong-headed or paranoid.

On Mar 14, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Kitty wrote:

Thanks for the in depth search Bonnie. There will always be people easily swayed and those seeking to sway them.

I did finish watching the 80 minute documentary and, though I found a few portions to be too much of a stretch, I found the bulk of it to be quite compelling. Conspiracy, at first, seems the stuff of suspense novels to me - surely such things don't really happen. But given all the background, documentation, and the realities, it certainly looks plausible to me now.

Does this mean I have been easily swayed? I don't consider myself smarter than the average person out there, but I do pride myself in (IMO) possessing an open mind. I have become more cynical over the years, but I feel with just cause, considering recent history.

Kitty
neIN, Zone 5
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Documentary about 9/11


The quote was so interesting that I wanted to do a little research on it to
see if there was anything else quotable. I found this at
http://www.answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=235519

Although this quote was indeed spoken by Reichsmarschall Hermann
Goering during the course of the Nuremburg Trials, it was not part of
the trial records, since these remarks were made privately by Goering
in a conversation with prison psychologist and U.S. Army Captain
Gustave M. Gilbert that took place in Goering's jail cell.

"The quote cited (above) does not appear in transcripts of the Nuremberg
trials because although Goering spoke these words during the course of
the proceedings, he did not offer them at his trial. His comments were
made privately to Gustave Gilbert, a German-speaking intelligence
officer and psychologist who was granted free access by the Allies to
all the prisoners held in the Nuremberg jail. Gilbert kept a journal
of his observations of the proceedings and his conversations with the
prisoners, which he later published in the book Nuremberg Diary. The
quote offered above was part of a conversation Gilbert held with a
dejected Hermann Goering in his cell on the evening of 18 April 1946,
as the trials were halted for a three-day Easter recess."

Snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

Here is the complete quote, with a comment by Gilbert that occurred
midway through it:

"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'

Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some
poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that
he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is
understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who
determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some
say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the
United States only Congress can declare wars.

Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
any country."

NashuaPeace.org
http://naw.ijaq.net/conversation_with_Goering.htm

"Goering's last days were spent with Gustave Gilbert, a
German-speaking intelligence officer and psychologist who was granted
free access by the Allies to all the prisoners held in the Nuremberg
jail. Gilbert kept a journal of his observations of the proceedings
and his conversations with the prisoners, which he later published in
the book Nuremberg Diary. The following quote was a part of a
conversation Gilbert held with a dejected Hermann Goering in his cell
on the evening of 18 April 1946, as the trials were halted for a
three-day Easter recess:

Sweating in his cell in the evening, Goering was defensive and
deflated and not very happy over the turn the trial was taking. He
said that he had no control over the actions or the defense of the
others, and that he had never been anti-Semitic himself, had not
believed these atrocities, and that several Jews had offered to
testify in his behalf... Later in the conversation, Gilbert recorded
Goering's observations that the common people can always be
manipulated into supporting and fighting wars by their political
leaders."

Nihildum.com
http://nihildum.com/goeringslastwords.html

Gustave Gilbert's "Nuremberg Diary" is still in print:

Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0306806614/ qid=1059272755/

If you'd like to read Goering's words in the original German, the
German text of the interviews was published under the title
"N|rnberger Tagebuch." It, too, is still in print, and can be obtained
from Amazon's German site:

Amazon.de
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3596218853/domaincomwill-21/ 028-057295
3-9279751

It is interesting to note that this quote, which has undergone a
recent revival because of its applicability to the war in Iraq, was
also commonly used by anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War.
Search terms used:

"voice or no voice, the people can always be brought"
"hermann goering" + "nuremberg"
"hermann gvring" + "n|rnberg"
"gustave gilbert" + "nuremberg diary"
"gustave gilbert" + "n|rnberger tagebuch"


[Original Message]
From: Christopher P. Lindsey <lindsey@mallorn.com>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Date: 3/13/2006 11:30:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Documentary about 9/11

> Yes, I have seen that. I'm convinced that 9/11 was an inside job. > It's
> amazing how all the pieces fall together. The PNAC - Project for a New
> American Century paper is a perfect blueprint, describing exactly why
the
> neo-cons needed a "pearl harbor" type event to accomplish their goals.
So
> many of the things that happened on 9/11 could not have happened
without the
> complicity of our government.  Either it was engineered by our
government or
> the government heard the chatter, figured out the plan and helped it
along,
> I haven't decided which, but one of the two happened.

I found this graphic on the Internet the other day (surprisingly, in a
non-political place) and found it apropos with relation to the video:

http://www.mallorn.com/~lindsey/hermanngoering9kd1nq.jpg

It reads:

"Naturally, the common people don't war, but after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

-- Hermann Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall
At the Nuremberg Trials after WWII

Chris

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Island Jim
Southwest Florida
27.0 N, 82.4 W
Hardiness Zone 10
Heat Zone 10
Minimum 30 F [-1 C]
Maximum 100 F [38 C]

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