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Re: Re: /schools


It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road except with
two things education and health care.  On the other side though I'm a
personal responsibility type of guy.  I hate the victimization thing that we
have going on in this country.  Typically that's an excuse which I can't
stand.  And if they pass anymore laws trying to protect me from myself I may
just commit hari kari...or is that against the law?

With education you simply can't have a democracy without a well educated
populace.  And of course diverse sources of news but that's a different
topic.  I assure you Kitty that if J. Paul Getty's kids went to public
schools...they would find the money.

With health care I've spent millions of dollars on research and I'm fairly
certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated communities.  So, we had better
find a way to pay for that also or not only will we have a bunch of people
who can't add past 2 + 2 but they'll be disease carriers as well.

David Franzman
A Touch of the Tropics
www.atouchofthetropics.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


> I understand your theory, David.  And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded
> 'heated'.  Not so, just speaking up.
>
> However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it can't be -
> there'd be less money to go around. I have no idea how many millions of
kids
> are in private schools, but if they were all sent to public schools, the
> system would collapse.  Public schools are using the funds from taxes that
> pay for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends meet.
>
> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice.  I don't
> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the right
to
> choose that route.  I also believe that if you want special schooling for
> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery school
while
> they are still in the womb - you can make that choice.  To say NO to these
> choices and to private school simply because you think it could improve
> public schools, goes against the grain of our society.  It's socialistic
or
> maybe even communistic - both systems with good ideals and properties -
that
> will not necessarily fix the public school problem.  Public schools must
fix
> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to consumers.
>
> Also - the best and the brightest are not necessarily in private schools.
W
> went to private schools.
>
> Kitty
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
>
>
> > "Too broad a statement, David."
> >
> > Kitty, I don't want to get into a heated debate over what is simply my
> > belief however I don't understand why your personal experience with
> > parochial schools makes my statement too broad.  My point was that if we
> > were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate
> > whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would have
more
> > concern for the welfare of public education which as you must admit
turns
> > out far more children than private.  Therefore our schools would be
better
> > because there would be far more involvement by those who wield more
power
> > within our society.
> >
> > Nobody would argue that private institutions are bad places for
learning.
> > Far from it.  In fact, what they do is funnel the best and the brightest
> out
> > of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful people
> in
> > the country and make public education not their problem.
> >
> >
> > David Franzman
> > A Touch of the Tropics
> > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> >
> > > > I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> this
> > > > country.
> > > Too broad a statement, David.
> > > Speaking from my experience of 12 years of parochial school, which is
> > > private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids
> > would
> > > attend.......
> > > I was able to receive a good education with, I believe, less of the
> > > interuptions you mentioned in another post.  Baby-sitting didn't
happen
> in
> > > my classes.  Can't behave ?  Out you go.  My parents paid tuition for
3
> of
> > > us and we weren't well off by any standards.  All the parents that pay
> > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and yet
> they
> > > do not make use of funds that the govt has assigned for public
schools.
> > For
> > > 12 yrs x 3, my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they
> paid
> > > tuition.  This allows the public schools extra funds.  It's not our
> fault
> > > they didn't use it wisely.  If I had had kids, they too would have
> > attended
> > > parochial school.
> > >
> > > Kitty
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> > >
> > >
> > > > Melody (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a
> > soapbox
> > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in the reality.  The
> > reality
> > > > is that there are far too many students in California who don't care
> and
> > > > whose parents don't care whether they get an education or not.  Fact
> is
> > > that
> > > > there is only so much money and resources and the way we casually
> spend
> > > > money in this country insures a bleak future for education.
> > > >
> > > > I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> this
> > > > country.  They guarantee unequal education.  Send Bill Gate's and
> Warren
> > > > Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this
> > discussion
> > > > right now.  But as long as we don't we lose untold thousands of
bright
> > > kids
> > > > who don't have the resources to a good education and hence fall
> through
> > > the
> > > > cracks.
> > > >
> > > > David Franzman
> > > > A Touch of the Tropics
> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and woefully
> > underfunded
> > > > > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our current
> > > > > government officials. In order to continue qualifying for federal
> > > > > financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
> level
> > > > > requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the
> children
> > > > > can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,
> then
> > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of
what
> is
> > > > > being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.
In
> > > > > it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of
> > > > > America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards. In
it's
> > > > > current bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,
> > > > > though...the strength of character to stand up for what you
believe
> > > > > in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course of
> > > > > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call
your
> > > > > local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully
fund
> > the
> > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry, folks!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> > > > >
> > > > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> > > > > --Albert Einstein
> > > > >
> > > > >  --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
> > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> > > > >
> > > > > No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I
> tell
> > > > > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than
the
> > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is that
> not
> > > > > only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class but
> many
> > of
> > > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an
elementary
> > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my
daughter
> > > > > came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched, in
> Spanish
> > > > > class, a Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did
have
> > > > > Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I
> find
> > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the
> > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original
> Message -----
> > > > > <br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:
> > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35
> > PM<br>Subject:
> > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen
> > what
> > > > > the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/ that?
> > > > > Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone
8A<br>> -----
> > > > > Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:
5/17/2004
> > > > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT]
New
> > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori
> > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I
think
> > the
> > > > > best part--that older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the
> > > > > education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of
> > intellectual
> > > > > development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings.
And
> I
> > > > > think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates
> > > > > succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,
2004,
> > at
> > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message dated
> > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> > >
jsinger@igc.org
> > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a
> Montessori
> > > > > school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local
> > > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre
> > > > >
> > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > > zem<br>>
>
> > > > > ><br>> > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> > > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> > >
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > Island
Jim<br>>
> >
> > > > > Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>>
>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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