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Re: /schools

re: "but I do know that it is possible to get a good education if you want it bad enough."

I think a major problem in many kids attaining a good education, no
matter where they go to school, is that way too many of them are focused
on something other than school...boys, girls, a job, shopping, partying,
sports, etc. I know that for me, education was EVERYTHING!!! It was a
way out of a desperate life of poverty and abuse. Education was my
salvation and not for one minute of one day all through out junior high
and high school did I ever forget that. I earned full scholarships to
college and worked three part time jobs while in college to make sure I
never lived that kind of life again. Many kids today are spoiled
rotten...they are given way too many things at way too early an age and
never once have to work very hard to get what they want. I think that in
some respects, the core values that were in place in this country a few
generations ago, don't exist any longer...mainly that it is your job as
the next generation to do better and go farther than your parents before
you and that education is the key to fulfilling that dream. Sad...

Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."    
--Albert Einstein

 --- On Wed 05/19, Kitty < kmrsy@comcast.net > wrote:
From: Kitty [mailto: kmrsy@comcast.net]
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:44:43 -0500
Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools

Super wealthy?<br>Back in 1974 I worked full time in a grocery store
after dropping out of<br>college for awhile. My mother did my taxes and
when she saw that I'd made a<br>whopping $10,000 that year she
accidentally blurted out that I'd made about<br>the same as my dad. My
parents put 3 daughters each through 12 years of<br>parochial school and
college (away from home). We had help from Indiana as<br>children of a
disabled veteran for college. But my parents believed in a<br>better
education for their kids and simply did without so we could have
it.<br>They were not super wealthy. Not quite poor, but certainly not
well off by<br>any means.<br><br>I don't know if I'm for or against
vouchers, but I do know that it is<br>possible to get a good education
if you want it bad enough. And if you<br>can't get it in a public
school, you find a way to get it elsewhere.<br><br>Kitty<br><br>-----
Original Message ----- <br>From: "cathy carpenter"
<cathyc@rnet.com><br>To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, May
19, 2004 9:04 PM<br>Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br><br><br>> At risk of
being strung up, I think that there is much to be said for<br>>
vouchers. Why shouldn't parents decide where to send their
children?<br>> Especially if they are not happy with what is produced by
the public<br>> education system? Its called putting money where your
mouth is. Why<br>> should the super wealthy be the only ones to have
that privilege?<br>> Cathy<br>> On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM,
Kitty wrote:<br>><br>> > I understand your theory, David. And, I'm sorry
if my reply sounded<br>> > 'heated'. Not so, just speaking up.<br>>
><br>> > However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it
can't<br>> > be -<br>> > there'd be less money to go around. I have no
idea how many millions<br>> > of kids<br>> > are in private schools, but
if they were all sent to public schools,<br>> > the<br>> > system would
collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes<br>> > that<br>>
> pay for private kids on the pub

lic kids and still can't make ends meet.<br>> ><br>> > Also, one of the
great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice. I<br>> > don't<br>> >
approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the<br>>
> right to<br>> > choose that route. I also believe that if you want
special schooling<br>> > for<br>> > your kids - like the nutcases who
enroll their kids in nursery school<br>> > while<br>> > they are still
in the womb - you can make that choice. To say NO to<br>> > these<br>> >
choices and to private school simply because you think it could
improve<br>> > public schools, goes against the grain of our society.
It's<br>> > socialistic or<br>> > maybe even communistic - both systems
with good ideals and properties<br>> > - that<br>> > will not
necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools<br>> > must
fix<br>> > themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to
consumers.<br>> ><br>> > Also - the best and the brightest are not
necessarily in private<br>> > schools. W<br>> > went to private
schools.<br>> ><br>> > Kitty<br>> ><br>> > ----- Original Message
-----<br>> > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> > To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM<br>>
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >> "Too broad a
statement, David."<br>> >><br>> >> Kitty, I don't want to get into a
heated debate over what is simply my<br>> >> belief however I don't
understand why your personal experience with<br>> >> parochial schools
makes my statement too broad. My point was that if<br>> >> we<br>> >>
were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of
separate<br>> >> whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire
society would have<br>> >> more<br>> >> concern for the welfare of
public education which as you must admit<br>> >> turns<br>> >> out far
more children than private. Therefore our schools would be<br>> >>
better<br>> >> because there would be far more involvement by those who
wield more<br>> >> power<br>> >> within

ur society.<br>> >><br>> >> Nobody would argue that private institutions
are bad places for<br>> >> learning.<br>> >> Far from it. In fact, what
they do is funnel the best and the<br>> >> brightest<br>> > out<br>> >>
of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful<br>>
>> people<br>> > in<br>> >> the country and make public education not
their problem.<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >> David Franzman<br>> >> A Touch of
the Tropics<br>> >> www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> >> ----- Original
Message -----<br>> >> From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> >> To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM<br>>
>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> >><br>> >><br>> >>>> I've said
this all my adult life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> > this<br>>
>>>> country.<br>> >>> Too broad a statement, David.<br>> >>> Speaking
from my experience of 12 years of parochial school, which is<br>> >>>
private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's<br>>
>>> kids<br>> >> would<br>> >>> attend.......<br>> >>> I was able to
receive a good education with, I believe, less of the<br>> >>>
interuptions you mentioned in another post. Baby-sitting didn't<br>> >>>
happen<br>> > in<br>> >>> my classes. Can't behave ? Out you go. My
parents paid tuition<br>> >>> for 3<br>> > of<br>> >>> us and we weren't
well off by any standards. All the parents that<br>> >>> pay<br>> >>>
tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and
yet<br>> > they<br>> >>> do not make use of funds that the govt has
assigned for public<br>> >>> schools.<br>> >> For<br>> >>> 12 yrs x 3,
my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they<br>> >
paid<br>> >>> tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's
not our<br>> > fault<br>> >>> they didn't use it wisely. If I had had
kids, they too would have<br>> >> attended<br>> >>> parochial
school.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Kitty<br>> >>><br>> >>> ----- Original Message
-----<br>> >>> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> >>>
To: <g

ardenchat@hort.net><br>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM<br>>
>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>>> Melody
(I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a<br>> >>
soapbox<br>> >>>> for political agendas) I think the problem is in the
reality. The<br>> >> reality<br>> >>>> is that there are far too many
students in California who don't care<br>> > and<br>> >>>> whose parents
don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact<br>> > is<br>> >>>
that<br>> >>>> there is only so much money and resources and the way we
casually<br>> > spend<br>> >>>> money in this country insures a bleak
future for education.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> I've said this all my adult
life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> > this<br>> >>>> country.
They guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and<br>> >
Warren<br>> >>>> Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be
having this<br>> >> discussion<br>> >>>> right now. But as long as we
don't we lose untold thousands of<br>> >>>> bright<br>> >>> kids<br>>
>>>> who don't have the resources to a good education and hence
fall<br>> > through<br>> >>> the<br>> >>>> cracks.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>
David Franzman<br>> >>>> A Touch of the Tropics<br>> >>>>
www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>>
>>>> From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com><br>> >>>> To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM<br>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> >>>><br>>
>>>><br>> >>>>> DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and
woefully<br>> >> underfunded<br>> >>>>> "No Child Left Behind Act",
brought to you courtesy of our current<br>> >>>>> government officials.
In order to continue qualifying for federal<br>> >>>>> financial aid for
school districts, each school must meet grade<br>> > level<br>> >>>>>
requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the<br>> >
children<br>> >>>>> can't make it and that prevents the school from
getting funding,<br>> > then<br>> >>>>> what is t

logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of what<br>> > is<br>>
>>>>> being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing
down.<br>> >>>>> In<br>> >>>>> it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend
to the children of<br>> >>>>> America...teaching them to reach for the
highest standards. In it's<br>> >>>>> current bastardized version, it's
a nightmare! Political action,<br>> >>>>> though...the strength of
character to stand up for what you believe<br>> >>>>> in...is the only
thing that will change this unfortunate course of<br>> >>>>> action our
elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call your<br>> >>>>>
local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully fund<br>>
>> the<br>> >>>>> NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry,
folks!<br>> >>>>><br>> >>>>><br>> >>>>><br>> >>>>> Melody, IA (Z
5/4)<br>> >>>>><br>> >>>>> "The most beautiful thing we can experience
is the mysterious."<br>> >>>>> --Albert Einstein<br>> >>>>><br>> >>>>>
--- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>>
>>>>> From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> >>>>> To:
gardenchat@hort.net<br>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32
-0700<br>> >>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>>
>>>>><br>> >>>>> No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!"
Man, could I<br>> > tell<br>> >>>>> you<br>stories about my kids school.
They watch more movies than<br>> >>>>> the<br>> >>>>> attendants
at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is that<br>> > not<br>>
>>>>> only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class
but<br>> > many<br>> >> of<br>> >>>>> them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now
are we talking about an<br>> >>>>> elementary<br>> >>>>> school? Nope!
High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my<br>> >>>>> daughter<br>>
>>>>> came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched,
in<br>> > Spanish<br>> >>>>> class, a Flintstones cartoon
movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did have<br>> >>>>> Spanish subtitles. The
schools are dumbing down<br>our kids a

nd I<br>> > find<br>> >>>>> it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A
Touch of the<br>> >>>>> Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>-----
Original<br>> > Message -----<br>> >>>>> <br>From:
<gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> >>>>>
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35<br>> >>
PM<br>Subject:<br>> >>>>> Re: Re: [CHAT] New
oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>> >> what<br>> >>>>>
the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>>
>>>>> Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone
8A<br>><br>> >>>>> -----<br>> >>>>> Original Message -----<br>> From:
james singer<br>> Sent: 5/17/2004<br>> >>>>> 4:24:57 PM<br>> To:
gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT]<br>> >>>>> New<br>> >>>>>
oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori<br>>
>>>>> environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I
think<br>> >> the<br>> >>>>> best part--that older children<br>> > have
responsibilities in the<br>> >>>>> education of younger
children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>> >> intellectual<br>> >>>>>
development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings.<br>>
>>>>> And<br>> > I<br>> >>>>> think that is why a high percentage of
Montessori<br>> > graduates<br>> >>>>> succeed at university.<br>>
><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,<br>> >>>>> 2004,<br>> >> at<br>>
>>>>> 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message
dated<br>> >>>>> 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> >
><br>> >>>>> jsinger@igc.org<br>> >>>>> writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma
teaches the primary grades in a<br>> > Montessori<br>> >>>>>
school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local<br>>
>>>>> Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre<br>>
>>>>><br>> >>>>> atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> >
> zem<br>> ><br>> >>>>>> <br>> > ><br>> >>>><br>> >>><br>> >><br>> >>
<br>> >> <br>><br>> >>>>>>> Support hort.net -- join the hort

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