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Re: Re: Re: Re: /schools


Well I haven't grown up yet (and don't hold your breath waitin' for it)
so Lord knows if and when I'll ever know what I want to be! Still a work
in progress.

LOL

Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea H
Sent: 5/20/2004 7:24:45 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

> Which is why we go back to grad school 15 (I mean 12) years later when we
> learn what we want to be when we grow up........
> 
> let's hear it again for history majors....
> A
> 
> 
> Andrea H
> Beaufort, SC
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> 
> 
> > History majors are very versatile people. Since we're qualified for
> > absolutely nothing in particular, we have to learn to do a little bit of
> > everything.
> >
> >
> > Pam Evans
> > Kemp, TX
> > zone 8A
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kitty
> > Sent: 5/20/2004 9:38:23 AM
> > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> > > He was also a candlestick maker in another life.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >
> > > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> >
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:46 AM
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Boy Melody, you should ask Kitty this question but, certified chef,
> >
> > > > manufacturers rep, degree in American History minored in political
> >
> > > science.
> >
> > > > Can you tell???
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > David Franzman
> >
> > > > A Touch of the Tropics
> >
> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >
> > > > From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> >
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:36 PM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > DF: Just out of curiosity...what did you do for a living before the
> >
> > > hibs.
> >
> > > > consumed you?
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> >
> > > > > --Albert Einstein
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >  --- On Thu 05/20, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
> >
> > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> >
> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >
> > > > > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:16:47 -0700
> >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road
> except
> >
> > > > > with<br>two things education and health care. On the other side
> though
> >
> > > > > I'm a<br>personal responsibility type of guy. I hate the
> victimization
> >
> > > > > thing that we<br>have going on in this country. Typically that's an
> >
> > > > > excuse which I can't<br>stand. And if they pass anymore laws trying
> to
> >
> > > > > protect me from myself I may<br>just commit hari kari...or is that
> >
> > > > > against the law?<br><br>With education you simply can't have a
> democracy
> >
> > > > > without a well educated<br>populace. And of course diverse sources
> of
> >
> > > > > news but that's a different<br>topic. I assure you Kitty that if J.
> Paul
> >
> > > > > Getty's kids went to public<br>schools...they would find the
> >
> > > > > money.<br><br>With health care I've spent millions of dollars on
> >
> > > > > research and I'm fairly<br>certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated
> >
> > > > > communities. So, we had better<br>find a way to pay for that also or
> not
> >
> > > > > only will we have a bunch of people<br>who can't add past 2 + 2 but
> >
> > > > > they'll be disease carriers as well.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A
> Touch of
> >
> > > > > the Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original Message
> >
> > > > > ----- <br>From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>To:
> >
> > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54
> >
> > > > > AM<br>Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br><br><br>> I understand
> your
> >
> > > > > theory, David. And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded<br>> 'heated'. Not
> so,
> >
> > > > > just speaking up.<br>><br>> However, if your theory were to be put
> into
> >
> > > > > practice - which it can't be -<br>> there'd be less money to go
> around.
> >
> > > > > I have no idea how many millions of<br>kids<br>> are in private
> schools,
> >
> > > > > but if they were all sent to public schools, the<br>> system would
> >
> > > > > collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes that<br>>
> pay
> >
> > > > > for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends
> >
> > > > > meet.<br>><br>> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans
> enjoy
> >
> > > > > is choice. I don't<br>> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe
> >
> > > > > those parents have the right<br>to<br>> choose that route. I also
> >
> > > > > believe that if you want special schooling for<
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > br>> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery
> >
> > > > > school<br>while<br>> they are still in the womb - you can make that
> >
> > > > > choice. To say NO to these<br>> choices and to private school simply
> >
> > > > > because you think it could improve<br>> public schools, goes against
> the
> >
> > > > > grain of our society. It's socialistic<br>or<br>> maybe even
> communistic
> >
> > > > > - both systems with good ideals and properties -<br>that<br>> will
> not
> >
> > > > > necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools
> >
> > > > > must<br>fix<br>> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by
> >
> > > > > choice, to consumers.<br>><br>> Also - the best and the brightest
> are
> >
> > > > > not necessarily in private schools.<br>W<br>> went to private
> >
> > > > > schools.<br>><br>> Kitty<br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> <br>>
> >
> > > > > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> To:
> >
> > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14
> AM<br>>
> >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>><br>><br>> > "Too broad a
> >
> > > > > statement, David."<br>> ><br>> > Kitty, I don't want to get into a
> >
> > > > > heated debate over what is simply my<br>> > belief however I don't
> >
> > > > > understand why your personal experience with<br>> > parochial
> schools
> >
> > > > > makes my statement too broad. My point was that if we<br>> > were
> all
> >
> > > > > sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate<br>> >
> >
> > > > > whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would
> >
> > > > > have<br>more<br>> > concern for the welfare of public education
> which as
> >
> > > > > you must admit<br>turns<br>> > out far more children than private.
> >
> > > > > Therefore our schools would be<br>better<br>> > because there would
> be
> >
> > > > > far more involvement by those who wield more<br>power<br>> > within
> our
> >
> > > > > society.<br>> ><br>> > Nobody would argue that private institutions
> are
> >
> > > > > bad places for<br>learning.<br>> > Far from it. In fact, what they
> do is
> >
> > > > > funnel the best and the brightest<br>> out<br>> > of the public
> school
> >
> > > > > system and even worse take the most powerful people<br>> in<br>> >
> the
> >
> > > > > country and make public education not their problem.<br>> ><br>>
> ><br>>
> >
> > > > > > David Franzman<br>> > A Touch of the Tropics<br>> > w
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > ww
> >
> > > > > .atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> >
> >
> > > > > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> > To:
> <gardenchat@hort.net><br>>
> >
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]
> >
> > > > > /schools<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult life:
> >
> > > > > Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country.<br>> >
> >
> >
> > > > > Too broad a statement, David.<br>> > > Speaking from my experience
> of 12
> >
> > > > > years of parochial school, which is<br>> > > private school, but not
> >
> > > > > quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids<br>> > would<br>> > >
> >
> > > > > attend.......<br>> > > I was able to receive a good education with,
> I
> >
> > > > > believe, less of the<br>> > > interuptions you mentioned in another
> >
> > > > > post. Baby-sitting didn't<br>happen<br>> in<br>> > > my classes.
> Can't
> >
> > > > > behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition for<br>3<br>> of<br>> >
> >
> >
> > > > > us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that
> >
> > > > > pay<br>> > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the
> >
> > > > > govt, and yet<br>> they<br>> > > do not make use of funds that the
> govt
> >
> > > > > has assigned for public<br>schools.<br>> > For<br>> > > 12 yrs x 3,
> my
> >
> > > > > folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they<br>>
> paid<br>> >
> >
> > > > > > tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not
> our<br>>
> >
> > > > > fault<br>> > > they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they
> too
> >
> > > > > would have<br>> > attended<br>> > > parochial school.<br>> > ><br>>
> > >
> >
> > > > > Kitty<br>> > ><br>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > From:
> >
> > > > > "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> > > To:
> >
> > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11
> PM<br>>
> >
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > >
> Melody
> >
> > > > > (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a<br>> >
> >
> > > > > soapbox<br>> > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in
> the
> >
> > > > > reality. The<br>> > reality<br>> > > > is that there are far too
> many
> >
> > > > > students in California who don't care<br>> and<br>> > > > whose
> parents
> >
> > > > > don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact<br>> is<br>> >
> >
> >
> > > > > that<br>> >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > there is only so much money and resources and the way we
> >
> > > > > casually<br>> spend<br>> > > > money in this country insures a bleak
> >
> > > > > future for education.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I've said this all my
> adult
> >
> > > > > life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country.
> They
> >
> > > > > guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and<br>> Warren<br>> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this<br>>
> >
> >
> > > > > discussion<br>> > > > right now. But as long as we don't we lose
> untold
> >
> > > > > thousands of<br>bright<br>> > > kids<br>> > > > who don't have the
> >
> > > > > resources to a good education and hence fall<br>> through<br>> > >
> >
> > > > > the<br>> > > > cracks.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > David Franzman<br>> > >
> > A
> >
> > > > > Touch of the Tropics<br>> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > >
> >
> >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > > From: "Melody"
> >
> > > > > <mhobertm@excite.com><br>> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > >
> >
> >
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM<br>> > > > Subject: Re: Re:
> [CHAT]
> >
> > > > > New oleander/schools<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > DF: This is
> the
> >
> > > > > result of a poorly thought out and woefully<br>> > underfunded<br>>
> > >
> >
> > > > > > > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our
> >
> > > > > current<br>> > > > > government officials. In order to continue
> >
> > > > > qualifying for federal<br>> > > > > financial aid for school
> districts,
> >
> > > > > each school must meet grade<br>> level<br>> > > > > requirements,
> you
> >
> > > > > know. Well, if a certain percentage of the<br>> children<br>> > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > can't make it and that prevents the school from getting
> funding,<br>>
> >
> > > > > then<br>> > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of
> >
> > > > > difficulty of<br>what<br>> is<br>> > > > > being taught to the
> lowest
> >
> > > > > common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.<br>In<br>> > > > > it's
> purest
> >
> > > > > form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of<br>> > > > >
> >
> > > > > America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards.
> >
> > > > > In<br>it's<br>> > > > > current bastardized version, it's a
> nightmare!
> >
> > > > > Political action,<br>> > > > > though...the strength of character to
> >
> > > > > stand up for what you<br>believe<br>> > > > > in...is the
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >  o
> >
> > > > > nly thing that will change this unfortunate course of<br>> > > > >
> >
> > > > > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or
> >
> > > > > call<br>your<br>> > > > > local federal and state legislators and
> demand
> >
> > > > > that they fully<br>fund<br>> > the<br>> > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off
> the
> >
> > > > > soapbox now...sorry, folks!<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > >
> ><br>>
> >
> > > > > > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > "The most
> beautiful
> >
> > > > > thing we can experience is the mysterious."<br>> > > > > --Albert
> >
> > > > > Einstein<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman
> <
> >
> > > > > dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>> > > > > From: David Franzman
> [mailto:
> >
> > > > > dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700<br>> > > > > Subject: Re: Re:
> >
> > > > > [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > No, no, no
> Pam!
> >
> > > > > It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I<br>> tell<br>> > >
> > >
> >
> > > > > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies
> >
> > > > > than<br>the<br>> > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie
> Festival.
> >
> > > > > What's worse is that<br>> not<br>> > > > > only are most of
> >
> > > > > the<br>movies out of context with the class but<br>> many<br>> >
> of<br>>
> >
> > > > > > > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about
> >
> > > > > an<br>elementary<br>> > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup
> d'
> >
> > > > > grace was when my<br>daughter<br>> > > > > came home from school and
> she
> >
> > > > > told me<br>that they watched, in<br>> Spanish<br>> > > > > class, a
> >
> > > > > Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did<br>have<br>> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > > Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and
> I<br>>
> >
> > > > > find<br>> > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of
> >
> > > > > the<br>> > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>-----
> >
> > > > > Original<br>> Message -----<br>> > > > > <br>From:
> >
> > > > > <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> > > > >
> >
> > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35<br>> >
> >
> > > > > PM<br>Subject:<br>> > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New
> >
> > > > > oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>> > what<br>> > >
> > >
> >
> > > > > the local public schools produc
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > e here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>> > > > >
> Appalling.<br>><br>>
> >
> > > > > Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone<br>8A<br>> -----<br>> > > > >
> Original
> >
> > > > > Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:<br>5/17/2004<br>> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re:
> >
> > > > > [CHAT]<br>New<br>> > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I
> >
> > > > > think the Montessori<br>> > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> >
> bring
> >
> > > > > out their curiosity. I<br>think<br>> > the<br>> > > > > best
> part--that
> >
> > > > > older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the<br>> > > > >
> >
> > > > > education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>> >
> >
> > > > > intellectual<br>> > > > > development that simply does not occur in
> >
> > > > > other<br>> > settings.<br>And<br>> I<br>> > > > > think that is why
> a
> >
> > > > > high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates<br>> > > > > succeed
> at
> >
> > > > > university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,<br>2004,<br>> >
> >
> > > > > at<br>> > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a
> >
> > > > > message dated<br>> > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard
> >
> > > > > Time,<br>> > ><br>jsinger@igc.org<br>> > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms.
> >
> > > > > Fatma teaches the primary grades in a<br>> Montessori<br>> > > > >
> >
> > > > > school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our
> local<br>>
> >
> > > > > > > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the
> gre<br>> >
> >
> > > > > > > ><br>> > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to
> learn.<br>>
> >
> > > > > > > zem<br>><br>><br>> > > > > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>
> >
> > > > > ><br>><br>>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
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> >
> > > > > 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>><br>><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>
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> >
> > > > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> > > >
> >
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>> > ><br>> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> >
> > > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> > >
> >
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>> ><br>> >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> >
> > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> >
> >
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>><br>>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> >
> > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>>
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> http://www.hort.net/funds/<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Support
> >
> > > > > hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >     http://www.hort.net/funds/<br><br>
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >
> > > > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> >
> > > > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> >
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> >
> > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> >
> > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> http://www.hort.net/funds/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
http://www.hort.net/funds/



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