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Re: All Available Data

Let me try to shed some more light on this subject by way of an example:

http://www.hostasports.com/j.html lists 2 Junes. (One is in bold letters
with (progenitor) and the other is plain text).
If you click on the (group of sports) link for the plain text June, you are
taken to a page that lists the sports of the progenitor Halcyon by leaf
center/margin color. You will find June listed as a Yellow Center/ Green
Margin sport of Halcyon.

If you click on the (group of sports) link for the bold text June, you are
taken to a page that lists the sports of June by leaf color.

In this manner you may tell the lineage of sports. In the above example
Early Times is a sport of June which is a sport of Halcyon.

Only a couple of the original wheels were put at hostasports.com because of
the space that the scanned circles took up.

The group of sports pages were set-up with the leaf color combinations so
people would not have to interpret their color from their position on the
wheel. The hope was that color codes from the Color Wheel would eventually
be added in order to more accurately represent a leaf's true color (or range
of colors).

There have been some problems in getting hostasports.com reregistered and
changed to another server.
I do have a copy on my computer so all will not be lost. Several people have
volunteered to help add the data to the website. When Dan and I can get
these problems ironed out , we will welcome any help and input.

Preston Littleton ( plittleton@ce.net )
Seaford DE
zone 7

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hawes <hawesj@atlantic.net>
To: <hosta-open@mallorn.com>; <hawesj@atlantic.net>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: All Available Data

> Hosta Sport Scholars and others,
> Although this topic is somewhat out of sequence, I wish to comment on it
> for two reasons
>    1. To provide some explanatory history of the work of the Sports
> Committee and
>    2. To raise some questions re our future direction of work.
> I want to comment on Zonneveld's post re   the status of the sport
> wheels documentation because it gives a false impression. He stated in
> his post of Mar. 28, 2001....." By the way, the useless concept of the
> wheels is now completely abandoned. The hosta wheel on the internet just
> gives all sports, not the lineage or decent of the sports. My booklet is
> still the only source for that".......
> My comments are as follows. Zonneveld has repeatedly made reference to
> the fact that his Booklet contains information on the sequence of
> sports. And further that the sequence of sports gives important clues as
> to the processes involved, thus the causes of sports. He infers that the
> Hosta Wheels did not give such data. This statement is partly true and
> partly false which I will explain.
> The purpose of my presenting data beginning in 1995 in the manner
> originally presented  was to show  groups of related sports that were
> derived from a common progenitor ( a great grandfather hosta , for
> example)  which  represented the original parent from which all further
> sports in the group were derived, whether direct or indirectly. The
> parent plant and all sports were placed in a circle like a clock face
> and arrows were drawn from the original plant to its first sport. As
> additional sports were reported. additional arrows were drawn
> representing historical reporting of the existence of a new sport. This
> information was based on information obtained from the person reporting
> the sports. In this case it was considered accurate with permission
> given by the provider of the information. You will see examples of the
> way  this data was compiled in the "Clans" Article and the "Artist
> Palette" Article in the Hosta Journals Vol. 26.2 and Vol 27.1
> respectively.The purpose of recording the data was to show the
> historical incidence of the sport, its source, its description as placed
> on the circle and by whom it was found. It was a system of reporting the
> "what" ...the historical incidence of the sports as described. It is
> true that I was  not particularly interested in the use of the data  as
> a clue for the "cause" of the sports.  This information may have been of
> interest to a geneticist but it was not of particular interest to
> gardeners.
> To criticize the system of data collecting and compilation for the use
> by someone else seems to be
> a cheap shot and not justified. The wheel was considered a graphic data
> base. It achieved its purpose of describing the hosta sports, recording
> their existence  as indicated by the arrows and their positions on the
> wheel and by  providing information on their source and chronological
> sequences.
> When more and more sports were found in later years ( 1998 and onward),
> a Hosta Wheel Committee of ten people became involved and some hosta
> wheels were developed without arrows . By that time I had passed on
> responsiblities of the Committee leadership to someone else who
> arbitrarily left off the arrows because this information was perceived
> as being relatively unimportant compared to other data.
> This is unfortunate. But let's not have any complaints because a source
> of data to copy, use without permission or citation of source had been
> changed slightly, making the copying of data difficult.
> We, as a committee,  are currently compiling data in a different format,
> decided upon by those responsible for the compliation. Information
> includes written articles, linkages to other sites, photos, information
> on the committee and similar data. The wonderful world of sports
> information has only just begun and we anticipate much, much more
> electronically. So don't think we are inactive or that the concept has
> been abandoned. Just because someone becomes ill and has to take some
> time off, doesn't mean we have abandoned  a concept.   Other data bases
> of other people are also compiling similar data making some of the data
> compilation of the HostaSports.com somewhat redundant. We are now faced
> with decisions re what direction we wish to take in the future and who
> will do the volunteer work.
> I hope this explanation has been somewhat helpful in understanding the
> Committee's volunteer work. We need more volunteers and especially
> inputs from many who can provide internet connections to transfer data
> fast to compilers of sports information. So volunteer and learn a lot
> while doing so. Log on to HostaSports.com, learn about the work
> accomplished so far and communicate with members . Join their ranks
> informally or formally if you wish. Ask how  you can help. Be a Hosta
> Sports Scholar.Thanks.
> Jim Hawes
> Zonneveld writes:
> As said repeatedly I based my booklet on ALL available data. All
> important references are in my booklet page 6  However, the
> friendly Mr Hawes was not prepared to give me the colors of the
> plants he described . These 10 or so plants ( out of about 600!_)
> are easy to spot in my booklet. It  are those were no color is
> attached to the name!  By the way, this useless concept of the
> wheel is now completely abandoned. The Hosta wheel on the
> internet just gives all sports NOT the lineages or descent of the
> sports. My booklet is still the only source for that.
> Ben J.M.Zonneveld
> Clusius lab pobox 9505
> 2300 RA Leiden
> The Netherlands
> mintemp-16C(5F)
> Zonneveld@RULbim.LeidenUniv.NL
> Fax: 31-71-5274999
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