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Re: Patriot


Ben:

I'm going to combine the responses to four of your messages into one 
as it will be easier for me.

>I did write an article about ploidy in Minuteman, patriot and 
>Francee It will be in the next journal It is not "comme il faut" to 
>give the details here already,

I suspect that you don't want to say anything about it now because it 
is most likely another example of your gross bad science.  I know you 
came to your conclusions based on flow cytometry and I would be more 
than willing to bet a very good bottle of beer that you didn't do a 
chromosome count to varify the results.  Flow cytomotry has its value 
is seperating diploids, triploids and tetraploids of non cyto-chimera 
plants, but it also has its limitations.  Your results are going to be 
pretty much useless unless you did a chromosome count of the pollen 
mother cells and the root tips and also measured the stoma size of 
Francee and Partiot.  I'm willing to bet that you didn't do this, thus 
your refusal to provide any results or dicussion of procedure.  

>..but you dont seem to have a fully tet Patriot

Are you saying there are two versions of Patriot - one a 4N-4N true 
tetraploid and one a cyto-chimera?  Patriot supposely was discovered 
in a field of Surflan treated Francee.  Surflan acts like colchicine 
to induce polyploidy, but I have my doubts that using Surflan on 
hostas as a preemmergent herbicide as directed can induce polyploid 
hostas.  Now Ben, if you would actually discuss your research with us 
instead of playing your mind games we actually might all learn 
something.  I thought at one time you said you prided yourself on 
being a teacher.  Or was that a bunch of bull crap?

>First definitions as half the confusion is related to the fact that 
>people assume that a sport is the same as a mutation (it is not) 
>something I have tried to convince you from in nearly every article 
>in the journal

Ben, you might be surprised to learn that most of us on this robin 
didn't get off the turnip truck yesterday!  I think that most of us 
know that a sport is not the same as a mutation!

>Based on my 30 years of research with yeast and other fungi I 
>think that Mitotic recombination has a frequency between mutation and 
>chime rearr.

What you think may be irrelevant to reality considering your 
propensity to do bad science.  

>A clear example is a green edge arising in a yellow plant.

Mitotic recombination is exceedingly rare.  As far as I know it has 
NEVER been documented in a higher plant!  And yet you casually claim 
it is occuring in hostas because you can't think of another 
explaination.  Ben, if mitotic recombination is occuring in hostas 
like you say, do the necesary research and you will become very 
famous!  There is absolutely no evidence for mitotic recombination in 
hostas as a cause for sporting.  This is just gross bad science on 
your part.

>You "aggresively" are Tcing to find new sports to get an insight
>in what is happening.

I'm not using tissue culture.

>I had thew same question a few years ago.

Yes, and you probably didn't have a clue as to how to get the sports.

>I solved it by colecting all sports as published.

And this is a good reason why you will never do good research.  First, 
not all sports get introduced - most aren't worth much.  Secondly, 
what does get introduced may not be a direct sport of the parent.  It 
may have taken several "generations" to stablize the plant that was 
eventually introduced.  I want all the sports so I can see them for 
myself.  Your approach is very incomplete and is likely to result in 
your failure to correctly interpert the results.

>As people asked for it I did a write up in my book of sports. If you 
>study this carefully you can get the answers the easy way.

Nothing you write can be studied carefully as everything I have read 
of yours is poorly written both from the writing and the scientific 
side.  I doubt that your book of sports is worth anything.  Ben, when 
I undertake a research project I like to have total control as much as 
is possible.  I don't want to depend on other people's 
interpertations, not that they may be wrong, but I want to see for 
myself.  Also, I'm not seeking personal glorification, so I'll do the 
long term study the way it should be done and worry about the 
accolades later!

Joe Halinar

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