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Re: Tetraploids & Flow Cytometry


halinar@open.org wrote:
RE>>Supposedly, Ben has done some flow cytometery and found many
triploids and tetraploid hostas,
but hasn't presented any of this information to members of this robin.

Not quite so fast, Joe.  I have a reprint of the Flow Cytometry article
and it is indeed worthy of a good long read, and I am a member of this
robin.  I also have a reprint of a review of "Standards for DNA Analysis"
from US researchers that needs to be analyzed further to determine any
significant differences between Ben's methodology and those of these
researchers using similar equipment.  There are some differences between
American methods and those of the Dutch, but I don't know whether these
are significant.    If Ben will allow it, I can make a photocopy of his
article and send it to you, or you can request a copy straight from Ben.

Jim Hawes' question deserves a serious response and it may take me (and
others) a while to complete the homework assignment, but part of the
results that Ben obtained corroborate work from a number of researchers
working on DNA Analysis.

There are very good reasons that it is beneficial TO THE PLANT to have
120 chromosomes instead of 60, but I'll have to take some time to collect
more references before I attempt to offer my more thorough response.
Certainly there a lot of benefit that accrues to hybrids when using a
more tranditional, sexual propagation technique.  I don't believe anyone
is saying that these types of efforts don't bear wonderful fruit or that
there isn't still a lot that can be achieved through these methods.

Hope my brain doesn't give out before I can get this completed.
Sometimes it seems a little fried as I read and try to comprehend 115
million base-pairs being contained in but five chromosomes that I believe
the naked human eye can't even see (this is the length of the Arabidopsis
Thaliana genome).  I would imagine that the Hosta genome is larger, with
it's standard 60 Chromosomes.

Andrew Lietzow







> Jim:
>
> >You and others have made strong claims that it is obvious that more
> >work in Flow Cytometry is needed to determine the ploidy
> >characteristics of hostas because characteristics are obviously
> >better.( than diploid characteristics,for example?)
>
> >It is not obvious to me.
>
> I have to agree with you that tetraploid hostas may not be of that
> great value as compared to other plants.  Supposedly, Ben has done
> some flow cytometery and found many triploids and tetraploid hostas,
> but hasn't presented any of this information to members of this robin.
> Well, if there are tet hostas already in our gardens, I can't find
> them by looking at them.  Supposedly, ventricosa is a natural
> tetraploid, but when I look at ventricosa I can't see anything about
> it that says "tetraploid."  I have some OP seedlings from ventricosa
> that are clearly hybrids and I can't see anything about them that says
> tetraploid.
>
> Whether or not hostas will benefit from being converted to a tet level
> can only be shown by actually converting some hostas to the tet level
> and seeing what they look like.  From a breeding point there probably
> is limited value in converting hostas to tets because hostas are
> already amphidiploids with lots of duplicate genes.  Some hostas might
> look nice at the tet level, but there doesn't appear to be any great
> need to shift hostas to the tet level like the way daylily hybridizers
> shifted daylily hybridizing to the tet level.
>
> As has already be mentioned by others, there is a lot of hosta
> germplasm that hasn't been used in hybridizing.  Bringing this
> germplasm into the breeding pool will probably be far more beneficial
> to hostas then to work to convert existing hostas to the tet level.
> However, not withstanding everything I said above, I still wouldn't
> mind seeing someone work with converting hoatas to the tet level just
> to see what they look like.
>
> Joe Halinar
>
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