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Re: Old data on Patriot

  • Subject: Re: Old data on Patriot
  • From: Jim Hawes <hawesj@atlantic.net>
  • Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 17:00:56 -0400


I note in your post to Ben that you asked for the title of an article  he
wrote and where can you find it. Actually Ben mentioned two articles
...he numbered them 1.  and 2 . But I see he has not responded to your
request for this information. The purpose of this post is to be helpful
to you and others reading along. My partial response is to refer you to
the second article mentioned above. See...Ben Zonneveld,  "Why Are
Independently Arisen Look-alike Sports Identical Rather Than Only
Similar?", AHJ Vol. 30, No. 1, pg 56. This article as well as two others
, were the subjects of our comprehensive discussion  on hosta-open this
spring. The summaries of our discussion have been posted on Hosta-open
several times already. In it, Ben's theories and his Rule of Thumb re the
Origin of Sports have been completely discredited. These summaries will
also be published in the Fall edition of the Hosta Journal according to
Kevin Walek. Perhaps Kevin may wish to comment on the status of this

Ben has had the  opportunity to give his evidence and arguments of proof
for his theories and his Rule of Thumb but he opted not to do so or was
unable to do so. Why he is saying that others have short memories is
difficult to understand. Why he is re-hashing his old discredited
theories that have been discussed over and over again is also difficult
to understand. The article mentioned (number 2) does not need further
study as suggested by Ben because it has been shown to be invalid,
faulty and not consistent with the conventional wisdom of other research
conducted on this subject within the last 20 years by authoritative
researchers. What else needs to be said? .

But good luck to you,  Bill. Perhaps you will be able to get a better
explanation from Ben than anyone else has been able to obtain.

Jim Hawes

Bill Nash wrote:

> Hi Ben ..you wrote "Loyalist is a pure tetraploid"
> what do you mean by *PURE*?
> all three cell layers are polyploid! ..or what else does *pure* mean?
> You also wrote:  << " Why not study this article.
> If any questions remain, just ask!
> Where do I find this article to study, and what is the Title of it?
> thank you kindly in advance
> /bill nash, canada
> <-------- regarding original email below---------->
> At 03:05 PM 07/02/2001 +0200, you wrote:
> >Some people have short memories
> >1. I have written an article about Patriot and Minuteman It it I
> >showed that there are pure tetraploid Patriots and partly tetraploid
> >Patriots ( ploidy chimera) Yes it is best to measure both the edge
> >and the center of a leaf in this case. I suppose an offset( crown )
> >will have at least one leaf. The existence of both tetraploid and
> >partly tetraploid Patriots can easily explain the results.By the way
> >Loyalist is a pure tetraploid I dont know about Fire and Ice
> >2. Further I did write an extensive article about the question when
> >sports are identical and when only similar Yet people come up with
> >this same question over and over again. Why not study this article.
> >If any questions remain, just ask!
> >Ben J.M.Zonneveld
> >Clusius lab pobox 9505
> >2300 RA Leiden
> >The Netherlands
> >mintemp-16C(5F)
> >Zonneveld@RULbim.LeidenUniv.NL
> >Fax: 31-71-5274999
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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