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Re: About this "having a war" business....

  • Subject: Re: About this "having a war" business....
  • From: "H. WILLIAMS" <msbucky@home.com>
  • Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:58:02 -0400

Diann Thoma wrote:
> Andrew, I don't mean this as a slam whatsoever, but I think you have
> trouble letting go of things. 


Congratulations - you have forced me out of the closet again.

> in detail here over what you consider to be a grossly unfair message from
> Bob; and you expressed extensively why you believe there should be a stated
> policy on such messages.

The message wasn't 'grossly unfair'- it was SLANDER.  Why should Andrew
let it go?  The insinuation that he is/was a problem vendor on ebay is
TOTALLY FALSE yet that message is now wandering the internet, archived
on the open, for others like yourself who read only part of a thread. 
This is potentially damaging, not only to Andrew's reputation, but to
his business.  Andrew requested a public apology - rightly so.

Whoever the vendor Bob was referring to on ebay is - it ISN'T Andrew,
and Bob should have the courtesy to acknowledge his error, publicly. Bob
is lucky - if it were me, I would already have contacted my lawyer. 
That public slur on the internet is WORSE than if he'd published it in
the newspaper.  

> No one has agreed with you, which also is not a slam.
Diann, just because a number of us have chosen NOT to join in here with
our nickel, does not mean there isn't a silent MAJORITY out here who DO
AGREE with Andrew.  It's bad enough to publicly identify a 'problem
vendor' - it's unconscionable to wrongfully accuse someone and then turn
your back and ignore the whole thing.  Bob's refusal to 'read the
messages' anymore, is completely irresponsible, and childish, when all
that is required is an apology. 

Your (and a few others) message in support of Bob, is all fine and well,
but DID YOU BOTHER TO READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS?  Do you really know what
this all about?  I doubt it.  

No one is saying Bob isn't the greatest thing to hit hostaland since
sliced bread.  He works hard, he gives much.  It is all very much
appreciated.  All that however doesn't give him the right to slander a
fellow grower...  

Diann in case you are still confused... I am referring to the reference
to Andrew and ebay, NOT TK49 - whoever that is.  Please - go back and
re-read the messages.


> Meanwhile, let it go, dude. Life's too short to hang on and on to (and thus
> continue to perpetrate) hurtful stuff of this calibur.
> Best,
> Diann
> >From: "Andrew Lietzow" <andrewl@hostahaven.com>
> >Reply-To: hosta-open@mallorn.com
> >To: <hosta-open@mallorn.com>
> >Subject: About this "having a war" business....
> >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:18:24 -0500
> >
> >Hello Bob (and the folks who comprise this eclectic group we call the
> >Hosta-Open list),
> >
> >  BDeyes6@aol.com wrote:  >> I think these wars have been waged
> >before......
> >-------------------------------
> >
> >And "I"  think I see how these "wars" get started.
> >
> >1) I asked a simple question regarding policy, terms and conditions and the
> >like, regarding your decision to post a message recommending that we not
> >bid
> >on auctions of one "Tk49" (essentially suspending his/her auctions. I
> >believe the software does not support a suspension option, but I could be
> >mistaken).  Apparently, you felt "just cause" existed for suspension and I
> >simply asked a question regarding whether there was a written policy for
> >such actions.
> >
> >2) Later, you accused me, through a mistaken identity, of being a bad eBay
> >seller.  I responded with a request that you correct this public statement
> >which was obviously in error (confusing me with someone else, whom I do not
> >know), and you chose not to address this mistake with a simple correction.
> >Something as simple as a "whoops, I made a mistake" would have sufficed.
> >
> >3) I send a note privately that recommends that discretion is the better
> >part of valor, and that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw
> >stones, etc. but OBVIOUSLY giving you he benefit of the doubt on this
> >nematode issue (read the message again--I was trying to PRIVATELY alert you
> >to a possible issue and explaining that I withheld alerting you until I
> >could do more research).  Then you decide to throw this private
> >conversation
> >into the fire, racheting up the rhetoric and passion, provoking people to
> >feel they need to defend you or attack me, etc.
> >
> >(And I know I've skipped a few parts, but I hope this is a half decent,
> >albeit subjective, synopsis).
> >
> >Now we have people thinking we're having some kind of a "war".  I can see
> >how they might.  Instead, I would like to redirect you back to the original
> >question at hand.
> >
> >"Is there a written policy, publicly available, regarding when and how
> >action is taken that would cause sellers or buyers to be suspended from
> >participating in the HostaLibrary.org auctions".  If you don't want to take
> >the time to answer the question directly, Bob, that is your perogative.
> >And, if you don't take the time to read my messages for whatever reason,
> >then you'll seldom see any value in a applying reason where reason is all
> >that is required.   A "yes"; a "no"; an "I have no policy and have no
> >intention on working on it";  I would simply like to know because I have
> >had
> >some transactions on the HL.org auctions and want to know the procedures
> >that are being followed when there is a problem.  And if there are no
> >standardized procedures, then I simply need to know that, too.  I would
> >encourage you to establish some if you want the process to appear fair.
> >That's it. Nothing initially inflammatory at all.
> >
> >I hope Mr/Ms Tk49 surfaces soon so we can find out what is going on.  When
> >one signs up to be a seller, maybe there needs to be a more rigorous
> >process
> >of getting information on just who these people are.  Legitimate excuses
> >aside, if I had sent money and was getting no where with email, I would
> >like
> >to have access to a snail mail address or a phone number.  Of course, you
> >can always use the same method you have this time.  It's your auction site.
> >Since there is some public support, however, I imagine the policy should be
> >uniformly applied so your actions are above reproach.
> >
> >Auction fraud is not a new phenomena and I regret if you think I was
> >personally attacking you.  There was NEVER any intention on my part to do
> >so.  I'm simply asking a straight forward question about written policy.  I
> >hardly think that one could construe that type of a request as grounds for
> >"war" or a "showdown at the OK Corral".
> >
> >Hey everyone, have fun at First Look!
> >
> >Andrew Lietzow
> >#1 Plantsman at http://HostaHaven.com
> >1250 41st Street
> >Des Moines, IA 50311-2516
> >eBay Search: <Hosta HH>
> >515-274-0300
> >
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