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Re: Presumptions about your mother


In a message dated 3/24/99 7:21:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zonneveld@rulbim.leidenuniv.nl writes:

<<  Could you elaborate on this statement?
 
 pps:  when they first started selling patriot....some of them could have been
 minuteman....so if your patriot sports....are you sure it is a sport of
 patriot....or is it a sport on minuteman.....
 >>
first and formost...this is from a laymens perspective, not a genetics
background......i still have a hard time wrapping my mind around
sports/mutations...and all that stuff...


"I thought"...and that is a big caveat.....that minuteman was a selection from
patriot.....as wade says "it's an improved patriot"....both are listed as
mutations of francee....

now, if patriot was first removed from francee....that is to say it is a
mutation of francee...then it is grown on....and a "selection" is made from
patriot....as was minuteman....is minuteman a sport of francee???   or is
minuteman a sport of patriot.....i smell a genetics issue hear....

now we know that both are in tissue culture....and that we rely on abilitites
of the lab to ferret out what plant they are producing....they are very good
at this....but mistakes do occur.....can one say that when dealing with tiny
ex-plants that it is readily apparent which plant is being produced.....grow
them on for a few months...study them...sort them....and hopefully the buyer
recieves the correct plant.....but maybe they dont....

now ben, i used this as an example.....assuming i have patriot, and you have
patriot.....assuming the sources were different....assuming we both get a
green sport/mutation [dont get tangled up if i use the wrong term]...can you
and i safely assume that we have the same sport/mutation......even if we can
NOT prove that the mother plnats are identical.....

falstad pointed this out a while back....a few weeks ago....he said something
along the lines that you could assume certain sports/mutations are the same,
IF YOU CAN ESTABLISH THAT THE PARENTS WERE THE SAME TO BEGIN WITH.....

now....back to mikes question.....he used Elegans as an example...i wanted to
point out that his elegans, may not be the same as my elegans...and neither
may be the same as your elegans.....so my point was that similair looking
sports from our 3 plants, are NOT necessarily the same.....and therefore the
rules of the registrar should be followed....different names for independent
plants, UNTIL IT CAN BE PROVEN THEY ARE THE SAME.....and i guess i am
suggesting that to prove they are the same, you have to prove that the mother
plants were the same.....

i wanted to go a step further....give another example of how we can not be
sure that the mother plant is not the same...hence the example of
patriot/minuteman......I THOUGHT I HEARD SOMEONE ONCE SAY that some
percentage, and it was a ridiculous percentage, of patriots were labeled as
minutemans, and vice versa......if my recollection is wrong...then my original
"mother" statement was wrong...and this is all nonsense....maybe this was a
warren pollack discussion in one of the historical hosta journals.....sorry i
cant be more specific....

does any of this make sense, or am i way out of line here????

ken
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