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Re: [IGSROBIN] what's in a name?


G'day Andrew,
Boy you have opened a can of worns.
If you have another read of my e-mail I did acknowledge that Ciconiums and
Peltatums were able to cross. Equally within the Pelargonium Family other
crosses have ocurred between species of differing sections or sub-genus. I
was merely indicating that Regals will not hybridize with zonals.The
response to the rest of your comments re groupings will have to wait until
tomorrow.
Regards
Alby
Geraniaceae is all around the World
mailto:SCRIVENS@bigpond.com
<http://www.users.bigpond.com/SCRIVENS>

----------
> From: Andrew <awilson@FDA.NET>
> To: IGSROBIN@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
> Subject: Re: what's in a name?
> Date: Saturday, 29 May 1999 16:42
>
> Dear Alby and Cynthia,
>
> While I appreciate the information you've given there seems to be a
> problem. Let me put this as carefully as I can without trying to get
> anyone upset, but I don't see how both of you can be right!  Here's the
> problem. Alby says, if I interpret him correctly, you cannot get crosses
> between members of different sections (sub-groups); Cynthia says that
> the Regals came from crosses between species that belonged to different
> sections (P. cucullatum , P. betulinum are in the de Candolle section,
> P. grandiflorum is in the Glaucophyllum section while P. fulgidum is in
> the Ligularia section).
>
> Can somebody help clear this one up? I've never understood the sections.
> The definition of them is usually given pretty loosely and it ends up
> with a list saying which species belongs where but does not tell
> precisely why. Are the distinctions really based on genetic differences
> and on the ability to procreate only through intra-section and, of
> course, intra-species coupling? Or is there possibly a distinction
> between the terms 'sub-genus' and 'family' as used by Alby (see below)
> that I am not understanding? Or have there been name changes that
> confuse the definition of the species involved in the developoment of
> these wonderful but highly convoluted hybrid plants?
>
> I did not intend the original question I had to lead to this but now
> that it's started it would be helpful to me, and maybe others, to see it
> cleared up. Thanks.
>
> Andrew
> San Diego, California
>
> Alby wrote:
>
> " Regals
> are part of the Pelargonium/Pelargium sub-genus whilst Zonals belong to
> an
> entirely different family known as Ciconium.  Ivies, that is P.Peltatum
> from their own family have crossed with zonals or Ciconiums.   It has
> been
> thought that the (sub-genus)Pelargonium family may cross with the
> Peltatums
> and thus the resultant hybrid may then cross with a Ciconium.
> Personally
> my opinion for what its worth is "NUTS".
>
> Cynthia wrote:
>
> "Take Pelargonium cucullatum (1672) Pelargonium Betulinum(1786)
> Pelargonium
> grandiflorum(1794) Pelargonium fulgidum (1732) and other conjecturals
> that
> share the same chromosome combinations and the First early hybrids were
> made
> in England 1800-1840....the early "regals" large ruffled, heavy markings
> were
> born in 1877-1914".





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