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Re: Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
  • Subject: Re: Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM
  • From: Autmirislvr@aol.com
  • Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:55:06 -0500

 

<<As to doing rebloom crosses. rebloomer X rebloomer is only necessary with the recessive rebloom genetic types. that is the summer (or direct ) rebloomers, and with "whenever " rebloomers. And they need to be same genetics on each side. That is summer rebloomer X summer rebloomer and  whenever rebloomer  x whenever rebloomer. >>
 
Chuck, I'd like to throw RETURNING CHAMELEON into the mix.  It is PINK SLEIGH X IMMORTALITY.  Pink Sleigh is not in the rebloom check list.  (I'd thought it was) 
 
Over the past 15 years, RETURNING CHAMELEON has bloomed from July through frost in it's native or near native gardens.  Just this summer, 2009, it started blooming in August and has a stalk up somewhere until the hard freeze.  I believe three stalks, in various stage of growth and bloom, were killed by the freeze. 
 
SUMMER RADIANCE blooms in July and again in the fall in some climates.  It is from a sporadic (Hindenburgh) X fall cycle (Lemon Reflection). 
 
Neither seem to fit the pattern. 
 
 
Betty W.
KY Zone 6
Happy Holidays to all. 

-----Original Message-----
From: irischapman@aim.com
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 8:22 am
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM (was 06-48ARE Debrenee X Immortality

 
Crystal Glitters is in Rebloom checklist, but only reported in Australia. Other may have had rebloom but havn't reported it. But genetics are there.

I haven't gotten reports on rebloom on Garden Bride, but it isn't well distributed in warmer climates. As it hasn't rebloomer here I would say it isn't a rebloomer, but it has exceptrional plant vigour, so offers rebloom possibilities.

As to doing rebloom crosses. rebloomer X rebloomer is only necessary with the recessive rebloom genetic types. that is the summer (or direct ) rebloomers, and with "whenever " rebloomers. And they need to be same genetics on each side. That is summer rebloomer X summer rebloomer and  whenever rebloomer  x whenever rebloomer.

Otherwise  rebloomer x rebloomer doesn't add any rebloomer to mix in terms of  rebloom genes.  So Immortality X cyclic rebloomer  will give you rebloom as cyclic rebloom is dominant. Immortality rebloom genes don't add to rebloom directly.  Plant vigour will enhance effects of cyclic rebloom, but with Immortality you also get short stalks, poor form, poor flower texture.  If you are looking to get Immortality plant vigour into seedlings, then Immortality needs to be pod parent. If you check  for rebloomers from Immortality  in checklist, you find a fair number, but all from crosses with cyclic, and almost all are with Immortality as pod parent. Same thing when any of the whenever rebloomers are crossed with a cyclic rebloomer. Thus Forever Blue (et ilk) will produce cyclic rebloomers when crossed to a cyclic, but will work better as pod parent, where plastid inheritence passes on plant vigour.

So if you want plant vigour, good branching, good flower form. substance, then you would be better off using Garden Bride as pod parent  times the same cyclic rebloomer. If you make the matching crosses of  Garden Bride and Immortality X cyclic rebloomer, you will get more rebloomers, with much better form, branching etc  from Garden Bride  then from Immortality. This is because the summer rebloom genes from Immortality doesn't add anything to rebloom in these crosses.  Cyclic rebloom genes will come from pollen parent. I may even try some of these crosses to demonstrate.

For SDB, there shouldn't be any difference in number of rebloom offspring  between using a whenever rebloomer such as Forever Blue  as pod parent as versus Paradim Shift or Summened Spirit, when crossed to a cyclic rebloomer as pollen parent.

Cyclic X cyclic  doesn't add any extra rebloom genetics to mix.  May not even get more rebloomers then oncer X cyclic.  Secondary chacteristics , plant vigour, will add to the mix, more so if the  better plant is used as pod parent. But not any more then crossing with a oncer, selecting very vigorous plant, with low mature leaf count at bloom, as pod parent.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original Message-----
From: loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 3:09 am
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM (was 06-48ARE Debrenee X Immortality

 

Hello Chuck, 
 i didn't know 'Crystal Glitters' rebloomed, thanks for the tip,  so what about your 'Garden Bride': (('Cotton carnival' x 'Crystal Glitters' ) X 'Breakers'),
does it rebloom too?
Loïc
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 4:58 AM
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM (was 06-48ARE Debrenee X Immortality

 
I have gotten some fall cyclic seedlings from Celebration Song used as pollen on Forever Blue. And FB is not a cyclic rebloomer. The plant vigour imparted by FB enabled the cyclic genes to work.

Crystal Glitters is a rebloomer, so GACG13 may have cyclic genes but not rebloom as it doesn't have plant vigour needed to enable cyclic rebloom.

So that just leaves the one with Stunning Seranade, which is yet to be proved as a rebloomer.

Keep me posted.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 4:50 pm
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB: fall cyclic from IMM (was 06-48ARE Debrenee X Immortality

 
The three that I can think of were IMM X pollen from CELEBRATION SONG
(one fall cycle out of ~50 surviving seedlings), GACG13 (GOLDEN APPLE X
CRYSTAL GLITTERS), and STUNNING SERENADE.

Hard to evaluate how "serious" these all are about rebloom, given my
growing conditions, but the first one is old enough and I have enough of
it planted to say it is definitely a cycle rebloomer. The second one
has fall cycle bloomed in one new clump the last couple of years (GACG13
has never rebloomed, but isn't that great a grower). The third is too
young to know for sure, but rebloom was not maiden bloom.

CSONG is in the rebloom checklist, but only from OR, WA, & Oz, & I don't
know what time of year it was reported to rebloom.

<When you get Fall cyclic rebloors from Immortality, is it from a cross
of Im X oncer or a cross of Im with a cyclic rebloomer?

Chuck Chapman>

Linda Mann
east TN



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