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RE: Analysis of MS seedlings -Flavanoid?

  • Subject: [PHOTO] [iris-photos] RE: Analysis of MS seedlings -Flavanoid?
  • From: irischapman@netscape.net
  • Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:24:41 -0500


I thought your illustration on carotenes was quite clear.  I had wondered 
about whether Flights of Fancy was tttt because the beards didn?t look 
tangerine in some of the photos I've taken.  Its my understanding that the 
beard color is expressed in three layers much like the fall petal.   I was 
curious whether FOF could be tttt in the layer on the tip of the beard, but 
not the other layers.  The description in the registration states that it is: 
white to cream tipped flame.

Hoping this doesn't just muddy the waters

Robin Shadlow
zone 5 NE

Thanks for your Question. I’ve been waiting for it. Sometimes the answer 
doesn’t make sense until the right question is asked. Actually you have two 
good questions here. 

The one about beard structure is one I’ve asked but have no answers to. I 
haven’t come across any information on the beard’s structure.  There are 
papillae on the surface of the falls on many bearded iris and they can vary 
in height. The beard may be an extreme form of this. Thus it could be two 
layers of the cell wall of the upper dermis or it could also have some of the 
vacuole in the centre. Also it could be some other modification of the upper 
dermis cells. It would be useful to know.  

The question of the colour of the standards is the one I have some better 
ideas on. Take a close look at the standards of FoF and seedling #4 and 
compare them to the standards of Seakist (attached) They look the same to me, 
although you have to look past the anthocyanin intrusions/wash in FoF.  I 
have extracted a water based yellow pigment from the standards of Seakist but 
there is no oil based yellow there.This would appear to be a flavanoid but I 
haven’t identified it. There are a couple of suspects based on what has 
been found in other, (not iris) flowers.  Without this pigment FoF would have 
a white rather then a cream ground.

For now, use the assumption that FoF is reduced carotenoid for all the 
genetic analysis. We can see how this fits.

As to the flavanoid (assumed to be pending better identification) we can see 
it as possibly being in seedlings #1, 4, 12, 14 & 16. We do have to discount 
the colour perception induced by anthocyanin intrusions/wash. It is also 
possible that the flavanoid is present in a number of the seedlings with 
yellow. I have extracted this water based yellow from a few other iris 
flowers that have both this flavanoid and a carotene. Harvest of Memories is 
one example. Thus we have 5 and possibly 8 ( #8 could have both lycopene and 
flavanoid). This can fit with a dominant gene showing 50% in a cross. It can 
also fit with a four dosage recessive X 3 dosage recessive. the other 
recessive option to consider would be 4 recessive X 2 recessive. This would 
give 1/6 offspring showing four recessives . This would give a prediction of 
3 of this type in this cross. As we are looking at 5 minium then this is not 
the best fit to the data. 
Here is a good time to do some kitchen chemistry on FoF and the seedlings 
with yellow. Take the petals, cut off the obvious portions of anthocyanin ( 
not essential) and extract through a thorough mashing in methyl Hydrate ( 
paint thinner) or rubbing alcohol. A mortar and pestle would be handy here. 
Then filter the extract. A coffee filter works well. Then add some clear oil 
( lamp oil, baby oil or mineral oil all work,  cooking oil usually has some 
tinting so don’t use it). Then shake well and then let settle. A test tube 
works well for this or any narrow jar. The oil rises to the top and takes any 
oil based pigments with it. Any yellow pigment left in the bottom is a water 
based pigment. Any anthocyanin that gets in the alcohol segment will 
deteriorate rather quickly and will be gone in a day or two. The flavanoid 
remains. I just checked my extract from Seakist and its still there 6 months 
later so its very stable. This can tell us what seedlings have this pigment 
and help sort out the genetics.

I would suspect the flavanoid to be a dominant gene.

I really really would like some feedback re all this. Doesn’t it fit?  Does 
it seem real ?  As this is a new concept I need to know what holes are there  
so they can be explored/explained.

Chuck Chapman

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