hort.net Seasonal photo, (c) 2006 Christopher P. Lindsey, All Rights Reserved: do not copy
articles | gallery of plants | blog | tech blog | plant profiles | patents | mailing lists | top stories | links | shorturl service | tom clothier's archive0
Gallery of Plants
Tech Blog
Plant Profiles
Mailing Lists
    Search ALL lists
    Search help
    Subscription info
Top Stories
sHORTurl service
Tom Clothier's Archive
 Top Stories
Disease could hit Britain's trees hard

Ten of the best snowdrop cultivars

Plant protein database helps identify plant gene functions

Dendroclimatologists record history through trees

Potato beetle could be thwarted through gene manipulation

Hawaii expands coffee farm quarantine

Study explains flower petal loss

Unauthorized use of a plant doesn't invalidate it's patent

RSS story archive

RE: Yellow plicatas and Timewarp

  • Subject: [PHOTO] [iris-photos] RE: Yellow plicatas and Timewarp
  • From: irischapman@netscape.net
  • Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:01:45 -0500

You do have yellow , pink, blue etc amoenas even if the carotenoid and 
anthocyanin pigments are controlled by separate genes and a yellow amoena 
will not afect the distribution of the anthocyanin pigment. Look at the two 
attached pictures of a chimera of Summer camp. The exact same distribution of 
the anthocyanin and the carotene pigments are obvious when the anthocyanin is 
removed. the original idea was that plicatas are a pattern of the anthocyanin 
and that thus you couldn't have carotenoid plicatas as the plicata gene 
didn't control the cartenoid pigments. A lot of the original "yellow 
plicatas" were a plicata pattern of anthocyanin on a yellow ground. This 
basically was called a misuse of the term and I agree fully with this. Thus 
the terminology was very incorrect used this was and we now call these 
plicata on a yellow ground. Now when people say yellow plicata they refer to 
a stitching of yellow  in a plicata pattern on a white ground. When Light 
Beam (Blyth 1985) was first introduced Barry called it a yellow plicata. It 
was from Broadway X Beverly Sills. He got called to task for using such a 
term. Broadway is a plicata with intense , unmarked yellow standards and 
falls with red plicata markings around the falls which are white in the 
centre. A close look shows that there basically is a yellow rim around the 
standards and the anthocyanin is on top of this, not what I would call a red 
on white plicata but a plicata on a Joyce Terry ground. Beverly Sills is a 
pink but it and its parent Vanity throw lots of plicatas. Either one or both 
could be a plicata with the anthocyanin removed by one of the anthocyanin 
removal genes (recessive or dominant) and with BS I suspect "I". I used LB in 
a plicata cross and got all plicata offspring. Barry also has done this and 
has gotten the same result. Jean Witt had written an article (I'd have to 
look up the reference) where she was a heretic (my term) and presented an 
argument for there being yellow plicatas with the yellow pigment distributed 
in a plicata pattern just like the  anthocyanin is. 
In the cross of mine with light beam I got some seedlings with a purple 
plicata stitching on a Joyce terry pattern. The colour of the stitching is 
red when it is on the yellow ground and violet-blue where it is on the white 
ground on the falls. There also was one seedling with yellow stitching in 
exactly the same pattern as in a plicata. Dots and veins and not solid as in 
a JT pattern. 

Facts are facts, theories try to explain facts, if they don't then we need 
another explanation. I have accepted these facts to mean that we can have 
carotenoid pigment distributed exactly like anthocyanin apparently controlled 
by the same factor. You don't check out something that you don't believe in 
its existence so this hasn't been researched as it doesn’t exist, right? 
Well my first thoughts were that perhaps the yellow was a flavanoid so I 
checked this out. That is not the case, it really is an oil based yellow 
pigment, not water based. Currently I'm trying to find out if we can call on 
a structural explanation. That is a difference in the cell structure  that 
somehow prevents any pigment from being present. It seems to be related to  
the original genes from Iris variegata where we can and do have both water 
based and oil based pigments distributed exactly the same way, 100 percent 
matching. You can't have this if one gene controls yellow and one controls 
violet, there is no way then can be aligned this precisely. With all the 
evidence supporting  I. variegata as being one of the ancestor species  of 
the plicata pattern  there does seem to be a connection.
I present a program  I call "Pigments and Pattern" exploring and explaining 
how we put all the various gene controls and pigments togther to make the 
various iris flowers we have. I always trot out my data on "Yellow plicatas" 
It appears to be quite convincing.
Once there is a general (or increased ) acknowledgement of its existence then 
there be research into how it is so. Right now there is a dearth of research. 
After all why research something that doesn't exist. 

Saying "By definition, a plicata must  contain anthocyanin!”is an attempt 
to define it out of existence.
 I have heard various explanation that could possible explain some 
situations, but they don’t really seem to be able to explain all things, 
especially  something like Time Warp where even if there is some anthocyanin 
there on top the yellow to make the dots stand out, you can see that the 
yellow is there in dots. I have taken several good close ups of a number of 
my yellow SDB  patterned from plicata genetics that show dotted and streaked 
yellow on white that even if there is some anthocyanin there, it couldn’t 
possibly account for what is seen.

Sorry for the long rant but the more I study    Pigments and patterns the 
more I realize that there are factors influencing them that haven’t been 
fully explored. This is one, flavanoids are another
and there is Anthocyanin Enhancement ( anthocyaninic vacuole inclusions) and 
a couple more I suspect and have good documentation for.

I feel there is a lot of research that could be done that is not being done. 
Dr. Randolf did some nice genetic research with three generation of crosses 
with good data collected. This data is still available in his book and only 
recently have I been able to properly analysis it. We need more research like 
this. WE now have the tools needed. The digital camera is an excellent tool. 
Randolf’s research involved other people making the crosses and sending 
seeds to him. He had to grow them as it needed an expert to examine the 
seedlings. We can now economically take photos of all the seedlings and 
examine at them at leisure. Seedling don’t have to be grown by the person 
doing the evaluation as good photos can provide lots of useful   information 
and be distributed to as many people who can all do their own analysis in 
their area of expertise.

Many of the crosses that can provide the data are being made. It’s just 
necessary to collect the data that is there and get it to those willing and 
able to analysis it.

Enough ranting for now.

Chuck Chapman 


>In a message dated 1/20/2005 11:13:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
>irischapman@netscape.net writes:
>Usually  when someone sugests that something is a yellow plicata
>all sorts of  denials of such an animal come out of the woodwork.
>Chuck, I'm one of the confused ones.  It didn't make sense to me  that two 
>plants with the same pattern, one yellow and the other purple, wouldn't  be 
>same type.
>Here is the explanation I received:  "
>Betty W. in  South-central KY Zone 6
>Bridge In Time Iris Garden@website:

Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register

Netscape. Just the Net You Need.

New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

JPEG image

JPEG image

Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index

 © 1995-2015 Mallorn Computing, Inc.All Rights Reserved.
Our Privacy Statement