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Re: Re:Let't improve the register!

  • Subject: Re: Re:Let't improve the register!
  • From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
  • Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:55:06 +0100

Right Griff !
So be it then:
The MEANING has not to be taken into consideration when registering an iris.
It's only the way the name LOOKS and SOUNDS !
Still, it's not enough to get rid of the meaning to avoid any complication!
There will always be a moment when we'll have to draw the line:
How close the LOOK or the SOUND can be ?
Mike Lowe has decided that ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE was not close enough to ALIENOR D'AQUITAINE to refuse it.
Here's what he just sent me to explain his choice:
Hi Loic,

Have been swotting heavily on the R & I and Ghio pedigrees so haven't had
time to address this.

I will give you the same explanation we furnished Lawrence:
We conducted a careful and extensive evaluation of the
similarities/differences between ALIENOR D'AQUITAINE and ELEANOR OF
AQUITAINE when we approved the epithet on 7/30/2004. Our conclusion was that
the cultivar epithets in question were sufficiently distinctive/different
regarding verbal usage, catalog usage, printed denomination lists and
electronic databases to permit approval of ELEANOR OF AQUITAINE.
Our reasoning leading to the above conclusion is as follows:
Verbal -< the two epithets are pronounced with sufficient variance that the
possibility of confusion is very small.
the majority of catalogs are listed in their respective sections. In those
cases where the document consists of one alphabetized list the two cultivars
will be separated due to the different spelling.
Printed denomination lists (Check Lists, R & Is) -- Spelling of the two
epithets will ensure a large separation between the position listing the two
cultivars in the documents. When the above documents are employed to obtain
a listing of an iris named in honor of the queen of France, 1137­52 and of
England 1154­89, an individual whose primary language is French will search
a different section of the reference work than would an individual primarily
employing English.
Electronic listing <- a search for OELEANOR OF AQUITAINE¹ will not produce
the listing OALIENOR D'AQUITAINE¹. A search using only OELEANOR¹ will not
produce OALIENOR¹. A search for OD'AQUITAINE¹ will only produce the listing
In short the two cultivar epithets are pronounced differently, spelled
differently, have a differing Oword count¹, are applied to cultivars in
differing classes, and originate and are largely circulated on different
continents. We consider the differences to be sufficient that the epithets
do not constitute an infraction of the rules and recommendations for naming
plants in cultivation as detailed in the OInternational Code of Nomenclature
for Cultivated Plants¹, 7th Ed. 2004.


I still regret that the attribution of a name obeys only to  mechanical definitions:
Printed lists
Electronic listing
It's as if a computer could do the job.
Feels very unpleasant.
George Orwell would agree with me, i'm sure, but who reads books nowdays anyway !
Glad the debate got started, the issue is more important to me than you seem to realise.
To deliberately exclude the MEANING  from the list of the paramerers used for registration has implications that can't just be ridiculed with a joke.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re:Let't improve the register!

Well, now, let's see . . . if the criterion is that new entries should not mean the same as names already registered in another language, I think we'd be locking the barn after the horse has flown (I've always wondered if that was Pegasus).  Not just one horse, but a vast herd.  For a very small example, I have culled the following names, all from our online AIS registry:
Kanarievogel and Canary Bird
Rotvogel and Redbird
Schneevogel and Snowbird
Weisse Taube and White Dove
Weisschen and Little White
That's just some of the Germans.  Then we have the French:
Dame Blanche and White Lady
Reine Blanche and White Queen
Chevalier Noir and Black Knight
Blancheneige and Snow White (not to forget the Germans' Schneeweisschen)
Mont Blanc, Mount Blanc and Monte Bianco (here come the Italians)
Chapeau Blanc, White Hat and Sombrero Blanco (and the Spaniards)
The list could go on, and I'm afraid I'd be here until the cows come home trying to identify all the translingual duplications.
Does it matter?  Well, personally, I'd hate not to be able to name an iris Morrie the Horseman because Maurice Chevalier was already taken.
Loic, I think you have your work cut out for you.  --  Griff
zone 7 in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: RE:Let't improve the register!
. . .
But is it also what you think about the matter, or would you, like me, like to have a debate about the new entries coming from abroad.
We only have the Russians for the moment, but guess what, when Chinese breaders or Japanese start to question the rules because they are not clear enough?
Do MEANING has anything to do with a registration or not?
THIS is the issue.
And i'd like  more people to join the debate!

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