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Re: Re: photo credits

From: John I Jones <jijones@ix.netcom.com>

> Patrick Orr wrote:
> I can understand and sympathise with the photographer's feelings in
> this matter, but I strongly dissagree with them.
> When a photo is posted on the internet, without a copywright, it is
> considered Public Domain.
> Public Domain means: any use without the concent of, or credit to
> the photographer as long as it is not used to generate revenue.
> If the photo was used to generate revenue, then the photographer might
> have a valid claim, but it is very hard to collect unless the photo is
> copywrighted.

Patrick (et alia)

Re: Copyrights (note spelling)

Every so often this subject comes up on the list. There is a great deal in the
archives, unfortunately a lot of it is wrong, as is some of the above.

Some time ago I posted the "quoted" text below in response to some questions
about copyrights and email. It mostly applies to photos as well. In summary:

No, a photo does not have to be parked with a copyright notice to maintain its
copyright (see implied copyright below)

Public Domain is public and can be used for anything. In order to be placed
into public domain the author has to attach a specific statement to the item
to give up their rights. Posting something on the internet, a website, or
email does nothing to invalidate the owner's copyright or automatically make
it Public Domain.

On 24 Dec 1996 10:04:46 -0700 JIJones wrote:

> Well there is certainly a lot flying around on this subject. And the law
> on copyright is confusing, not always clear and not uniformly enforced.
> Unless someone specializes in the subject, it is difficult to keep up. 
> I work a lot in areas that worry about this sort of thing and my
> customers hire some very high priced talent that specialize in this
> subject to protect their interests. So I called one of these folks, who
> happens to be a friend as well, to see if he could help clarify things
> for me (us). Being what he is, he asked that I preface his comments
> with: 
> Please do not interpret the following as legal advice. If you have
> concerns in this area you should contact your own legal counsel for
> assistance.
> That being said this is my synopsis of what he said on the subject (and
> it refers only to US law).
> 1- There is a registered copyright that you get by applying to the
> Copyright office of the Library of Congress. This differs from patents
> and Trademarks, although a trademark may also be copyrightable. At any
> rate, a registered copyright is not the type of copyright we have been
> talking about.
> 2- There is an implied common law copyright on anything we produce. You
> have to actively dismiss those rights to put something in the public
> domain. It does not need to carry a copyright notice. HOWEVER, 
> there are lots of caveats surrounding copyrights.
> A - It has to be copyrightable. Lets not get into some of those
> arguments. Lets just assume that our email is copyrightable. 

(photos generally are)

> B - Implied license and expectation. If you send an email to someone,
> you expect that they will download it to their hard drive. Therefore,
> there you have granted them an implied license to do that. So if you
> send an email to a listserver, remailer or whatever, you anticipate that
> it will be remailed to the list members (you would probably complain to
> the list owner if it did not!), so you have granted the listserver an
> implied license to remail what you sent.
> C - There are fair use and commentary rights available to anyone who
> wants to use copyrighted material in an appropriate manner. This is
> generally associated with scholarly use, but can also cover critical
> review and the like. 
> D - Personal vs Commercial use. As long as you don't use copyrighted
> material for commercial use, you have a lot more flexibility and
> probably don't violate the law.
> E - There is no case law (or very little) that covers electronic mail,
> remailers, web pages and the like. The recent international agreement in
> Bern is not law until it is ratified by Congress, at first glance
> appears to cover art, movies and music, and probably won't change things
> much in regards to what we are talking about.

All this has nothing to do with the common courtesy of attributing the source
of anything you use to the original author.

John                     | "There be dragons here"
                         |  Annotation used by ancient cartographers
                         |  to indicate the edge of the known world.

USDA zone 8/9 (coastal, bay) 
Fremont, California, USA 
Visit my website at:

President, Westbay Iris Society
Director, Region 14 of the AIS
AIS Special Committee for Electronic Member Services

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