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Re: Re: Loic's seedlings C014A

  • Subject: Re: Re: Loic's seedlings C014A
  • From: irischapman@aim.com
  • Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:07:24 -0400

 

Why do you think it is odd that a seedling with a pink parent would be
black?

We are working with genes here. Either they are on or they are off. It
isn't like mixing paint.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2009 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's seedlings C014A

Yes there is a mistake Chuck, but not where i
thought:

The black seedling C014A is
(Midsummer's Eve X Romantic Evening) alright, but
........

......mea culpa, mea culpa, mea
culpa.........

the one i thought was a sibling  and called
C014B is in fact C399A: Dante's Inferno X (A001A: Baby Bengal x Tiger
Honey)
!

I double checked with the paper map and realized i
had read it upside down yesterday...!

Read the proper way, i saw the label of C399 was gone.

So they are NOT siblings!

Still a wonder the black one  is so black
considering the pod parent!

Sorry for the ugly one, it's not a
sibling.

Shame on me!

 

Loïc

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:
irischapman@aim.com

To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:17
PM

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A

 

=0
A

As the "I" inhibitor of anthocyanin is dominant, then half of seedlings

will have anthocyanin = 50%. As both parents have yellow (lycopene is a

yellow when not ttt, so 100% will be yellow based. Ae is dominant so

50 % of seedlings will have Ae. So 1.0 X 0.5 X 0.5 = 0.25 or 25 percent,

or 1 out of four. this is assuming only one dosage of Ae in Romantic

Evening and one dosage of I in Midsummer's Eve. This would work with

Immortality, but not with Midsummer Eve. This is because of tangerine

factor in both Midsummer Eve and Romantic Evening.

The kicker is
that the yellow that is base of black in Romantic
Evening is alternative
yellow.

As both Midsummer Eve and Romantic Evening are tttt, all
seedlings from
this cross should have tangerine beards. As none of the
C014 seedlings
shown have tangerine beard, I suspect an error has crept in
somewhere.

The yellow that is a base of the black with tangerine beards
is the
alternative yellow , which is recessive. So this cross of
Midsummer's
Eve X Romantic evening shoudn't produce black , unless
Midsummer Eve
carries the alternative yellow. Not the same problem with
Immortality,
as Immortality seems to carry tt, we now have to multiply by
.5 again
to give 1 out of 8 seedlings. The black ones would have yellow
beard.
The one's inheriting tttt & Ae and not having "I"20would
be a
rich
burgundy. Assuming Immortality does not have genetics for alternative

yellow

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Autmirislvr@aol.com
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Fri, Sep 18, 2009 10:38 am
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's seedlings
C014A

<<Black is a combination of yellow (beta-carotene),
anthocyanin

delphinidin (blue) and anthocyanin
enhancement.>>

Chuck, what are the odds of the genetics
lining up to produce C014A?

Theoretically, how many seed would one have
to produce to get black from

such a cross?

Betty
W.

-----Original Message-----

From: irischapman@aim.com

To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Fri, Sep 18, 2009 7:56 am

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A

Colour depends on genetics. These are switches,
producing one pigment or

another.

Black is a combination of
yellow (beta-carotene), anthocyanin

delphinidin (blue) and
anthocyanin enhancement.

Midsummer's Eve provides yellow via pink
whiuch is aborted

beta-carotene. Romantic Evening provides the yellow,
plus delphinidin

plus anthocyanin enhancement. Thus the colour. You
could get same

colour crossing Immortality to Romantic
Evening.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----

From:
Autmirislvr@aol.com

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:

Fri, Sep 18, 2009 8:36 am

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A

<<too old>>

Loic, my surprise was
due to the color, rather than form. I'm a visual

person. It was an
automatic (but wrong) response.

I saw a beautifully saturated black
seedling and when I looked at the

parents my brain didn't go past
"Midsummer" and immediately jumped to

the wrong one. It's a little
glitch my brain has always20had, it tries
to

take
shortcuts.

Still, I'm shocked that MIDSUMMER'S EVE, as a pod parent,
would produce

a black seedling. It has such a pinkish/white ancestry. I
would expect

something more like what you got from the pink X LIAISON
crosses. Just

more proof that anything is possible?

Always
something to learn.

=0

D

Betty W.

-----Original
Message-----

From: loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thu, Sep 17, 2009 9:11 pm

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A



C14A is a miracle, and the texture is
amazing. I even checked my paper

map of the bed, just in case a label
would have disappeared, but no.

Guess it to
ok from Enchanted World
instead of Immortality.

 

Still, when you see the shape of
B184= James Bond X English Cottage

attached), it is also a
surprise!

 

I had not planted the seeds from English
Cottage when i made the crosses

thinking EC was too old, i planted
them 1 year later, when i=2

0decided i

would go for rebloomers
and these crosses would be useful.

I'm glad i did!

And i surely
will go on using Immortality and it's father
EC!

 

Loic

----- Original Message -----

From:
Autmirislvr@aol.com

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:56 PM

Subject: Re:
[iris-p

hotos] Re: Loic's seedlings
C014A

 

<<Midsummer's Eve>>

Again,
my mistake. I thought it was Midsummer Night's Dream which is an

IB. My
misread.=2

0My mind just skipped right over the possibility
of

C014A being from Midsummer's Eve! Not something I'd expect from
an

Immortality grandchild. The other one, C014B, I can see being from
that

cross.

Betty W.

-----Original
Message-----

From: loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thu, Sep 17, 2009 2:52 pm

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A



Betty, no harm
done!

 

Midsummer's Eve is a BB, so crossed with Romantic
Evening, even  if both

parents give sm
aller flowers, the
babies are TBs indead.

 

In order to improve bud count on
the dark one, i pollinated it with

Tender Kiss, that has a lot of
Aphilla and red beards.

 

the ugly one with 10 buds was
also pollinated with Tender Kiss.

 

 

I will
cross the best one from each cross, in 3 years,

 

 so
in 6 years i might finally have a fabulous dark purple with
red

beards BB rebloomer,  with low branching and a multitude of
smaller

flowers called K018 = (A014A: Midsummer's Eve x
Romantic Evening) x

Tender Kiss) X (A014B: Midsummer's Eve
xRomantic Evening) x Tender Kiss)

!!!

=0



=0

A

And

you
know what, i'll call it Betty Wilkerson!

Will you let
me?

 

 

Loic

 

 

 

 -----
Original Message
-----

From: Autmirislvr@aol.com

To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:35 PM

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re:
Loic's seedlings C014A

 

<<TBXTB crosses, but I'll
try and send you the seeds if ever sth

happens!>>

Loic, I
wasn't very clear with this comment. I do not need the seed

personally.
You said it was a pity that the one you liked the b
est, the

lovely
black one, was the one with the low bud count. I was simply

suggesting
a way you might get the good bud count and the black color

from a
sibling cross. The cross was a IB x TB so I wasn't aware the

seedlings
were both TB size.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Betty
W.

-----Original Message-----

From: loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thu, Sep 17, 2009 8:52 am

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A



 hello again
Betty

 

it's20getting a bit late for crosses now ,
especially for TBXTB crosses,

but I'll try20and send you the seeds if
ever sth happens!

If not, i can try next spring, you are right, the
best of both would be

grand!

0A
 

Can't
have=2

0it all yet i recon, but i'm sure I'll be
lucky!

 

=C

2

look at C387A, (that i will
call 'Tender Kiss'), can you imagine such a

beauty on the first
seedling from a cross? This is what i call
LUCKY!

 

Loic

 

----- Original Message
-----

From: Autmirislvr@aol.com

To:

iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:23 PM

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re:
Loic's seedlings C014A
0D
 

<<C014A and
C014B>>

Wow! If they're both blooming, try crossing C014A onto
C014B? Maybe

you'll get the best of both worlds? Just a
suggestion.

Betty W.

-----Original Message-----

From:
loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com>

To:
iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thu, Sep 17, 2009 2:53 am

Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A

Here are C014A and C014B from (Midsummer's Eve X
Romantic Evening) .

 

Maiden bloom now:

C014A has
only 3 flowers,

C014B has 10!

 

Wish it were the
reverse!!!

=0

D

 

Loïc

--
---
Original Message -----

From: loic tasquier

To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:39 PM

Subject:
Re:=2

0[iris-photos] Re: Loic's seedlings
C014A

 

the flower is stunning, so unexpected colour, but
only 3 flowers on

maiden bloom.

One sib should open in a couple
days, wit

h a better bud count. Will add

the picture
then.

 

Loïc

----- Original Message
-----

From: Linda Mann

0ATo: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:10 PM

Subject: [iris-photos] Re: Loic's
seedlings C014A

 

C014A = Midsummer's Eve X Romantic

Evening

Wow - nice color, esp from that pedigree.

Linda
M

0D



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