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Re: Re:HYB: pigment (was sdlng from Pink Formal etc)
  • Subject: Re: Re:HYB: pigment (was sdlng from Pink Formal etc)
  • From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
  • Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:40:04 -0400 (EDT)


Actually, not true.  Check pg 426-427 in World Of Irises. The Xanthophylls are higher order pigments derived from carotenes. Found in plastids. Eleven of them  have been found in iris as well as the four basic carotenes.

Only the one anthocyanin has been found, delphinidin , in many different forms. Plus  several flavanoids, which are also in cell sap (mainly, as are manufactured in cell plasma and then transported to cell sap.)

After having said this, I must point out that fussing over all this is best left to theorists, as trying to use this in hybridizing  doesn't make much  sense, given complexity and in addition having to be concerned re intensity (amount of  these present), plus colour effects from  combinations, plus modification from cell sap ph..

As to modifiers,  I just don't have information at hand. But they interact in various ways, including  forming complex   stacking of anthocyanin molecules, which effect how much anthocyanin can fit into solution. There is information on these, but how relevant to iris is another step. Research on this is just not there.

Best bet for you breeding program with anthocyanin pink amoena is to do a hot water pigment extraction to see what base cartenoid pigment is there. And then select parents accordingly.  Should be something with  matching base cartenoid pigment. As anthocyanin is dominant and amoena is dominant so  will carry over to offspring, and is not needed in  other parent. So you can perhaps use a very nice white  for instance, or a pale lavender etc.

Chuck Chapman

---- Original Message ----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>; iris-photos <iris-photos@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 9, 2011 8:22 am
Subject: [iris-photos] Re:HYB: pigment (was sdlng from Pink Formal etc)

After sklmming over posts from you and Neil in iris@hort.net archives, I
have the impression that fewer pigments are known to be present in
bearded irises in the plastids (i.e., yellow & pink) than in the
vacuoles (many anthocyanins).

Is that your understanding also, Chuck?

Are the modifiers and co-pigments mostly in the plastids or vacuoles, or
is that known? & is it known how many there are?

<No chain of dominance and many forms can be present in same flower.
This is without considering all the modifiers and co-pigments.>

Now that I've <finally> lined out the seedlings from "cloud shadows" X
ABOUT TOWN and seen how robust and floriferous that anthocyanin "pink"
amoena is, I might want to try to modernize the form a bit, but haven't
a clue what kind of genes to cross it with to keep from losing that
intensity of color. & from your comment, it sounds like this may be one
of those unknowables.

<While a lot of research has been done on pigments, (the chemistry that
is ) very little has been done on how these pigments translate into
flower colour>

Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7
ahhh, cool, wet and foggy. Wonderful change in the weather.

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