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For The General Good - Imidacloprid


All
Saw a post talking about applying imidacloprid in LIQUID form to iris for
borer control. Having worked with this compound in professional life, I
would not suggest using liquid formulations on iris. First a few general
comments:

1 - EPA classifies as a "Warning" & "Caution" class II & III agent
2- There are tolerances for residues in food / feed
3- Systemic chloro-nicotinyl insecticide with soil, seed, and foliar
activity
4- Works by blocking insect neuro-pathways - selectively more toxic to
insects than warm blooded animals
5- Can be phyto-toxic ( poisonous to plants)
6- Known to be toxic to upland birds
7- Highly toxic to bees foliar applied - (not applied granular form)
8- Half-life of the compond is fairly long (48-180 days)
9- Generally not a ground water risk when used as recommended
10- Plant transport - penetrates the plant and moves from stems to tips

I would not suggest using "liquid" formulations of this product on iris
for several reasons. First, the bird & bee issues. Second, the compound
can be phytotoxic (poisonous to plants). The foliar form almost certainly
will increase the rate of uptake and peak dosage compared to conventional
granular. Last, the literature shows no accounts of human poisoning. But,
liquid spraying on the target crop usually makes an aerial mist which is
often inhaled, so potential human dosage with liquid is likely higher
than granular. One should point out the signs and symptoms of nicotinic
type poisoning include impairment of the muscles necessary to breath. If
there are any persons specifically susceptible to this compound - need
one say more ?

As it relates to IRIS. The phyto-toxicity issue is a serious concern.
With liquid application one expects  massive doses and high peak rates of
compound the plant must metabolize -  if it fails to metabolize - tissue
injury is the outcome. It is worth saying environmental conditions are
involved in this processs - you could do liquid one time with OK results
and dead plants another time, so please don't email me to say "I did it
and it works!".

A few IRIS conjectures based on experience in other crops. Imidacloprid
can injure seed of large seeded annuals (field corn) so would not apply
it to iris seed. Imidacloprid can injure inbred plants, probably because
of lower rates of metabolism - would not use liquid around highly inbred
or linebred cultivars. I would also wager there are some iris species
that will show sensitivity to the compound. Finally, beware of cultivar
specific effects. There has been a pattern of imidacloprid treated plants
showing cultivar specific growth spurts during stem elongation which
causes "talls". This can be observed quite easily in crops with sizable
populations where you have "treated" and "untreated control" populations.
(certain lines do it / not all). It would probably not be recognized
easily in iris because of the lack of controls and tiny population sizes
involved. So, if one of your prize 36" TB's ends up being 50+" after
liquid treatment, or your 12" SDB for the show ends up being 20" - liquid
applied imidacloprid might have something to do with it. I do NOT know if
the granular application method can have this effect.

What about the granular for borer ? It seems to work.

Hope this helps. Irisman646        



On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 11:45:02 -0500 iris-owner@hort.net (iris DIGEST)
writes:
> 
> iris DIGEST          Saturday, April 10 2004          Volume 01 : 
> Number 105
> 
> 
> 
> In this issue:
> 
>         [iris] TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
>         [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         [iris] Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song 
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         [iris] CULT: Botrytis
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
>         Re: [iris] Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song 
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         Re: [iris] TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
>         RE: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         [iris] Re: CULT: Botrytis 
>         [iris] Re: HYB: inside the pod (was on photos list
>         [iris] Re: Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
>         Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
>         [iris] RE: CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:56:41 -0400
> From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
> Subject: [iris] TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
> 
> Ev - you still here?  How does CLOUD BERRY look now that we're  
> getting
> closer to spring.  Anybody else growing it?
> 
> Neil, how did LOUISA'S SONG fare after the freezes?  Her sister, 
> SILK
> ROMANCE, looks quite good here so far, but we didn't get hit quite 
> as
> hard as you did.
> 
> - --
> Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
> East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.korrnet.org/etis>
> American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
> talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
> photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
> online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:14:39 -0400
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> Subject: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active ingredient 
> in
> Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed directly 
> on
> the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form due to 
> the
> application method. It is also supposed to be season-long, unlike 
> Cygon
> which has to be applied at two week intervals. It is priced 
> similarly to
> the 15# bags, at about 28$. I am going to give it a try and keep my 
> fingers
> crossed. It is also listed to be effective against aphids, thrips, 
> leaf
> miners
> and several other pests. Squirrels are not listed, unfortunately. 
> :(
> 
> John Bruce
> Hidden Acres Iris Gardens
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:07:05 -0400
> From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
> Subject: [iris] Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song 
> 
> I don't know if I have bloomstalks coming or not.  I don't see SDB's 
> coming,
> but one stalk is up in a fairly sizeable clump of LADY EMMA.  A few 
> TB's seem
> to be swelling at the bases but I can't tell for sure.
> 
> I think this is going to be another ( ! ) lean season.  That 18.8 
> degrees with
> at least twelve hours below 32 may have wiped out a whole lot of 
> bloom.
> 
> Neil Mogensen   z  7  western NC.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:08:07 -0500
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We have had bad luck around here with the liquid.  The new plants 
> die. :>(
> 
> 
> Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:14 PM
> Subject: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> > While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> > to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active 
> ingredient in
> > Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed 
> directly on
> > the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form due to 
> the
> > application method. It is also supposed to be season-long, unlike 
> Cygon
> > which has to be applied at two week intervals. It is priced 
> similarly to
> > the 15# bags, at about 28$. I am going to give it a try and keep 
> my
> fingers
> > crossed. It is also listed to be effective against aphids, thrips, 
> leaf
> > miners
> > and several other pests. Squirrels are not listed, unfortunately. 
> :(
> >
> > John Bruce
> > Hidden Acres Iris Gardens
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:38:25 -0400
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Hmmm...do all of them die, or just some? What about established 
> clumps?
> 
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have had bad luck around here with the liquid.  The new plants 
> die. :>(
> >
> >
> > Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> > To: <iris@hort.net>
> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:14 PM
> > Subject: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> >
> >
> > > While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> > > to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active 
> ingredient in
> > > Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed 
> directly on
> > > the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form due 
> to the
> > > application method. It is also supposed to be season-long, 
> unlike Cygon
> > > which has to be applied at two week intervals. It is priced 
> similarly to
> > > the 15# bags, at about 28$. I am going to give it a try and keep 
> my
> > fingers
> > > crossed. It is also listed to be effective against aphids, 
> thrips, leaf
> > > miners
> > > and several other pests. Squirrels are not listed, unfortunately. 
> :(
> > >
> > > John Bruce
> > > Hidden Acres Iris Gardens
> > >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 04 16:14:50 -0500
> From: laurief <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> >> > While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> >> > to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active 
> ingredient in
> >> > Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed 
> directly on
> >> > the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form due 
> to the
> >> > application method. It is also supposed to be season-long
> 
> I use the granular form of Merit because of the climate/growth 
> patterns 
> in my garden.  Up here in northern MN, it's possible to hit 70 
> degrees 
> quite early in the spring before the irises have had a chance to 
> grow 
> much at all.  If it's true that borer eggs hatch at 70 degrees, we 
> can 
> have borer larvae emerging before iris fans.  I've often wondered 
> where 
> borer larvae go under such circumstances and assumed they head 
> straight 
> for the rhizomes.  Obviously, a foliar spray won't protect my irises 
> when 
> they have little or no foliage, so I use the granules instead.
> 
> Last year was the first year I used Merit granules, and I couldn't 
> have 
> been happier with the results.  I applied 1 tsp per plant (or clump, 
> 
> regardless of size) very early when fan growth was just an inch or 
> two 
> out of the ground.  A Bayer rep had told me the effects would last 
> all 
> season, so I wasn't concerned about applying it too early.  I just 
> wanted 
> to make sure the plants had time to absorb the Merit through their 
> root 
> systems before temps rose enough to hatch borers.
> 
> Although I did see some signs of borers in the leaves last spring 
> ("water-streaked" leaves with chewed edges), I didn't find evidence 
> of a 
> single borer having survived the trip down to the rz ... and I dug 
> and 
> divided hundreds of clumps last summer.  What a joy to NOT find a 
> single, 
> hollowed out rz!  
> 
> I've got a bucketful of Merit in my garage waiting for a nice, rainy 
> 
> forecast.  I'm a believer!
> 
> Laurie
> 
> 
> - -----------------
> laurief@paulbunyan.net
> http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> slightly acid clay soil
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 04 16:31:46 -0500
> From: laurief <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> Subject: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
> 
> Borers may not scare me anymore, but botrytis does!  I've only seen 
> it in 
> my garden once before about 5 yrs ago on one rhizome.  Well, it's 
> baaaaaack!  At least, I *think* that's what I saw yesterday when I 
> finally got up the nerve to see how the main beds are doing this 
> early in 
> the season.  Irises are just starting to awaken here, and I wanted 
> to see 
> if I could tell who did and didn't survive the last 6 months of 
> winter.
> 
> In my wanderings up and down the rows, I found several rzs covered 
> in 
> what can best be described as medium brown velvet - obviously a 
> fungus of 
> some type.  When I saw botrytis years ago, it was a bit later (and 
> warmer) in the season and presented itself as a puffy black mass 
> atop the 
> rz. I'm guessing that yesterday's "velvet" is just a less mature 
> manifestation of botrytis.  Am I correct?
> 
> If this is botrytis, I know I need to dig and destroy the affected 
> rzs 
> and their surrounding soil, but here is my question:  how much of 
> the 
> surrounding soil do I need to remove to be fairly certain of 
> eliminating 
> the botrytis spores?  2" all the way around? 6"? 1'?  Should I hire 
> a 
> backhoe to come remove the top 3' of soil from all of my iris beds 
> (I'm 
> hoping that would be overkill)?
> 
> Neil, I know you've dealt with botrytis in the past.  Help!
> 
> Laurie
> 
> 
> - -----------------
> laurief@paulbunyan.net
> http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> slightly acid clay soil
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:01:27 -0500
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Just new ones.  Like recent plantings I think.  Not established 
> clumps.
> 
> Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> > Hmmm...do all of them die, or just some? What about established 
> clumps?
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> > To: <iris@hort.net>
> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > We have had bad luck around here with the liquid.  The new 
> plants die.
> :>(
> > >
> > >
> > > Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> > > To: <iris@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:14 PM
> > > Subject: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> > >
> > >
> > > > While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> > > > to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active 
> ingredient
> in
> > > > Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed 
> directly
> on
> > > > the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form 
> due to the
> > > > application method. It is also supposed to be season-long, 
> unlike
> Cygon
> > > > which has to be applied at two week intervals. It is priced 
> similarly
> to
> > > > the 15# bags, at about 28$. I am going to give it a try and 
> keep my
> > > fingers
> > > > crossed. It is also listed to be effective against aphids, 
> thrips,
> leaf
> > > > miners
> > > > and several other pests. Squirrels are not listed, 
> unfortunately. :(
> > > >
> > > > John Bruce
> > > > Hidden Acres Iris Gardens
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 18:04:37 -0500
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Hi Laurie,
> 
> May I use your testimonial in our newsletter to support the article 
> I am
> attaching?
> 
> 
> Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "laurief" <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> > >> > While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> > >> > to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active 
> ingredient
> in
> > >> > Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed 
> directly
> on
> > >> > the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form 
> due to
> the
> > >> > application method. It is also supposed to be season-long
> >
> > I use the granular form of Merit because of the climate/growth 
> patterns
> > in my garden.  Up here in northern MN, it's possible to hit 70 
> degrees
> > quite early in the spring before the irises have had a chance to 
> grow
> > much at all.  If it's true that borer eggs hatch at 70 degrees, we 
> can
> > have borer larvae emerging before iris fans.  I've often wondered 
> where
> > borer larvae go under such circumstances and assumed they head 
> straight
> > for the rhizomes.  Obviously, a foliar spray won't protect my 
> irises when
> > they have little or no foliage, so I use the granules instead.
> >
> > Last year was the first year I used Merit granules, and I couldn't 
> have
> > been happier with the results.  I applied 1 tsp per plant (or 
> clump,
> > regardless of size) very early when fan growth was just an inch or 
> two
> > out of the ground.  A Bayer rep had told me the effects would last 
> all
> > season, so I wasn't concerned about applying it too early.  I just 
> wanted
> > to make sure the plants had time to absorb the Merit through their 
> root
> > systems before temps rose enough to hatch borers.
> >
> > Although I did see some signs of borers in the leaves last spring
> > ("water-streaked" leaves with chewed edges), I didn't find 
> evidence of a
> > single borer having survived the trip down to the rz ... and I dug 
> and
> > divided hundreds of clumps last summer.  What a joy to NOT find a 
> single,
> > hollowed out rz!
> >
> > I've got a bucketful of Merit in my garage waiting for a nice, 
> rainy
> > forecast.  I'm a believer!
> >
> > Laurie
> >
> >
> > -----------------
> > laurief@paulbunyan.net
> > http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> > http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> > USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> > normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> > slightly acid clay soil
> >
> ~                  CONTROLLING THE IRIS BORER.
>                                                 
> Don and Ginny Spoon wrote an article about this product in
> the AIS Bulletin.  I have it, but it is 6 pages long and way to
> big for this newsletter.
> So here is small bit of information.  If you want the whole
> thing refer to the AIS Bulletin. (Sorry, I can t tell you which
> one.)
> The directions given to me was that you must spread this
> material in the spring before we have three days of 70 degree
> weather.  You spread it over the bed and let it soften into the
> ground.
> This is a granular material and you use 2 Tablespoons per 10
> square feet.  I use a hand grass seed seeder and marked out 10
> square feet (5' by 5') on my drive then sprinkled the granules on 
> the area with the seeder, until I
> got the setting about right.  I did not want to handle the 
> granules.
> I took me five minutes to do all of my Iris beds, and I have 600 
> Iris.  Last fall I found a whole
> cone of Borer eggs in a leaf that had not hatched.  They were in the 
> stem of an Iris I dug for sale. 
> I did have some damage from the borer as I was unable to obtain the 
> product until after the three
> days of 70 degree weather.  I put the granules on the Iris before 
> the snow set in last fall as it has
> a life of 6 months in the ground and I plan to repeat the process 
> this spring.
> The picture may not reproduce to well for the news so this is the 
> info.  Bayer (MUST BE
> BAYER) Advanced Lawn Grub Control.  (Active ingredient if Merit.) I 
> bought it at Wal Mart.  I
> saw it at the local hardware store for $10 a bag more than the Wal 
> Mart price.
> 
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream 
> which had a name of Merit borer control.wpd]
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:23:39 -0700
> From: Sandra Barss <barsssa@mb.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
> 
> Hi Laurie
> 
> Chuck Chapman had a preventive treatment for botrytis which I am 
> wishing
> I had saved .....since I have a couple of those too this year.  
> Perhaps he
> will post it again, I to hate seeing that stuff.  I only lost two 
> irises
> over the winter and it was both to that.
> 
> Sandra
> SE Manitoba
> 
> 
> laurief wrote:
> 
> >Borers may not scare me anymore, but botrytis does!  I've only seen 
> it in 
> >my garden once before about 5 yrs ago on one rhizome.  Well, it's 
> >baaaaaack!  At least, I *think* that's what I saw yesterday when I 
> 
> >finally got up the nerve to see how the main beds are doing this 
> early in 
> >the season.  Irises are just starting to awaken here, and I wanted 
> to see 
> >if I could tell who did and didn't survive the last 6 months of 
> winter.
> >
> >In my wanderings up and down the rows, I found several rzs covered 
> in 
> >what can best be described as medium brown velvet - obviously a 
> fungus of 
> >some type.  When I saw botrytis years ago, it was a bit later (and 
> 
> >warmer) in the season and presented itself as a puffy black mass 
> atop the 
> >rz. I'm guessing that yesterday's "velvet" is just a less mature 
> >manifestation of botrytis.  Am I correct?
> >
> >If this is botrytis, I know I need to dig and destroy the affected 
> rzs 
> >and their surrounding soil, but here is my question:  how much of 
> the 
> >surrounding soil do I need to remove to be fairly certain of 
> eliminating 
> >the botrytis spores?  2" all the way around? 6"? 1'?  Should I hire 
> a 
> >backhoe to come remove the top 3' of soil from all of my iris beds 
> (I'm 
> >hoping that would be overkill)?
> >
> >Neil, I know you've dealt with botrytis in the past.  Help!
> >
> >Laurie
> >
> >
> >-----------------
> >laurief@paulbunyan.net
> >http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> >http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> >USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> >normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> >slightly acid clay soil
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 04 18:52:11 -0500
> From: laurief <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
> 
> Hi Sandra,
> 
> >Chuck Chapman had a preventive treatment for botrytis which I am 
> wishing
> >I had saved 
> 
> I don't know where the botrytis came from this time around, and I 
> only 
> saw it on a few rzs in the main beds.  I'm not interested in soil 
> treatments because I have far too many companion animals and too 
> many 
> wildlife visitors to risk toxic chemicals in the garden.  The only 
> reason 
> I use Merit for borers is because it contains the same active 
> ingredient 
> as Advantage Pet Flea Control products, so I figure it's reasonably 
> safe 
> around the 4-leggeds. Fungicides and herbicides scare me, though, so 
> I'd 
> rather just remove the diseased plants and surrounding soil to deal 
> with 
> botrytis.  I do still need to know how much to dig out.
> 
> I hope we can both rid our gardens of this icky fungus.  As if 
> erwinia 
> weren't bad enough.
> 
> Laurie
> 
> 
> - -----------------
> laurief@paulbunyan.net
> http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> slightly acid clay soil
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:34:29 -0700
> From: Sandra Barss <barsssa@mb.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
> 
> Actually it wasn't a soil treatment.  You soak the rhizomes in a 
> solution of
> of something before planting.  I have seen this on new plantings a 
> couple of
> times now and I would like to try this solution.
> 
> It is supposed to go down here to 9 degrees tonight, yuk ! ...just 
> when the
> irises were starting to really grow.  Clarence was already about six 
> inches
> tall.
> 
> Sandra
> SE Manitoba
> 
> 
> laurief wrote:
> 
> >Hi Sandra,
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Chuck Chapman had a preventive treatment for botrytis which I am 
> wishing
> >>I had saved 
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I don't know where the botrytis came from this time around, and I 
> only 
> >saw it on a few rzs in the main beds.  I'm not interested in soil 
> >treatments because I have far too many companion animals and too 
> many 
> >wildlife visitors to risk toxic chemicals in the garden.  The only 
> reason 
> >I use Merit for borers is because it contains the same active 
> ingredient 
> >as Advantage Pet Flea Control products, so I figure it's reasonably 
> safe 
> >around the 4-leggeds. Fungicides and herbicides scare me, though, 
> so I'd 
> >rather just remove the diseased plants and surrounding soil to deal 
> with 
> >botrytis.  I do still need to know how much to dig out.
> >
> >I hope we can both rid our gardens of this icky fungus.  As if 
> erwinia 
> >weren't bad enough.
> >
> >Laurie
> >
> >
> >-----------------
> >laurief@paulbunyan.net
> >http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> >http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> >USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> >normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> >slightly acid clay soil
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:59:53 -0400
> From: "J. Griffin Crump" <jgcrump@erols.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song 
> 
> Neil  --  Although farther south, you must be at a much higher 
> elevation
> than I, since my SDBs will begin blooming tomorrow, flower heads are 
> visible
> on several intermediates, and I can see incipient flower stalks on a 
> number
> of TBs.  All this seems a bit early to me.  We, too, had several 
> nights in
> the mid-20's last week, but nothing like your 18.8!  Let's hope your 
> plants
>  just keeping their heads down for the moment.  --  Griff
> 
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
> To: "Iris-talk" <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:07 PM
> Subject: [iris] Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
> 
> 
> > I don't know if I have bloomstalks coming or not.  I don't see 
> SDB's
> coming,
> > but one stalk is up in a fairly sizeable clump of LADY EMMA.  A 
> few TB's
> seem
> > to be swelling at the bases but I can't tell for sure.
> >
> > I think this is going to be another ( ! ) lean season.  That 18.8 
> degrees
> with
> > at least twelve hours below 32 may have wiped out a whole lot of 
> bloom.
> >
> > Neil Mogensen   z  7  western NC.
> >
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 04 20:07:24 -0500
> From: laurief <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Botrytis
> 
> >Actually it wasn't a soil treatment.  You soak the rhizomes in a 
> solution of
> >of something before planting.
> 
> In that case, I'd be interested in knowing what it is.
> 
> >It is supposed to go down here to 9 degrees tonight, yuk ! ...just 
> when the
> >irises were starting to really grow.  Clarence was already about 
> six inches
> >tall.
> 
> It's been dropping below freezing most nights still, but I don't 
> think 
> we'll hit the single digits.  At least I hope not!  I'm not sure we 
> made 
> it much above freezing today, though.  Mighty chilly for the second 
> week 
> of April!
> 
> I don't have more than an inch of growth on any irises yet.  I'm 
> amazed 
> you have as much growth as you do.  Even with my minimal growth, I 
> can 
> see how unhappy the emerging foliage is with our prolonged cool 
> temps.
> 
> Laurie
> 
> 
> - -----------------
> laurief@paulbunyan.net
> http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> slightly acid clay soil
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:40:30 EDT
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> I find this info on Merit/Bayer?borers very interesting and hope to 
> be able 
> to try it before it is too late, if I can get someone to do it -- 
> but the 
> person that  used  the amount on 5' x 5'  probably had trouble, 
> because 5 by 5 is 
> (I think)  25 sq.ft. not 10 -- that would have to be something like  
> 2' by 5' 
> or some such combination -- please let me know if I've forgotten my 
> basic math 
> - -- I never  cared for math much!  But, that mistake may be a 
> serendipity in 
> showing that it is almost as good to spread the stuff a little 
> thinner, but not 
> quite so thin?!  And it would be more economical, which would be a 
> big help!. 
> And if we have to have consecutive  3 days of 70 degrees, then maybe 
> I'll be 
> lucky and it will be after taxes and will be able  to do the 
> treatment by then 
> - -- so far it is cold at night and  chilly in day --   Rosalie nr 
> Baltimore, 
> Md.,USA  sort of shakey about saying zone 7  when I looked at the 
> USDA map in 
> the recent FINE GARDENING which is a terrific issue! (May-June)  
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 22:53:29 -0500
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The person who said 2 x 5 is correct and that is pretty much a
> guess/estimate.  I put a square on my drive and used a hand  grass 
> seed
> spreader until I was happy with the outcome.  Then I did all the 
> beds last
> fall in November.  I have redone all the beds now, although the 
> material
> should last 6 months.
> 
> It is about $18 for 14 pounds at Wal Mart and Ace Hardware.  
> Remember, it
> must be the Bayer product and it must be without fertilizer.
> 
> Char Holte, New Berlin, WI (Near Milwaukee)
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <RYFigge@aol.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> > I find this info on Merit/Bayer?borers very interesting and hope 
> to be
> able
> > to try it before it is too late, if I can get someone to do it -- 
> but the
> > person that  used  the amount on 5' x 5'  probably had trouble, 
> because 5
> by 5 is
> > (I think)  25 sq.ft. not 10 -- that would have to be something 
> like  2' by
> 5'
> > or some such combination -- please let me know if I've forgotten 
> my basic
> math
> > -- I never  cared for math much!  But, that mistake may be a 
> serendipity
> in
> > showing that it is almost as good to spread the stuff a little 
> thinner,
> but not
> > quite so thin?!  And it would be more economical, which would be a 
> big
> help!.
> > And if we have to have consecutive  3 days of 70 degrees, then 
> maybe I'll
> be
> > lucky and it will be after taxes and will be able  to do the 
> treatment by
> then
> > -- so far it is cold at night and  chilly in day --   Rosalie nr
> Baltimore,
> > Md.,USA  sort of shakey about saying zone 7  when I looked at the 
> USDA map
> in
> > the recent FINE GARDENING which is a terrific issue! (May-June)
> >
> 
> -----
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:30:47 EDT
> From: CntryTwang@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
> 
> My irises are looking awesome thus far.  Cloud Berry is up there 
> with the top 
> of the others on the list.  I walked through the garden this morning 
> and 
> counted with an eye-ball glance, about 50 or so bloomstalks on the 
> TB's!!!  
> (Pretty amazing for all being first year plants)
> 
> I have six MTB's currently blooming from last year's Mid-America 
> intros and 
> see color on 3 more that should be popping anytime!
> 
> I've been taking photos and will post them here within the next few 
> days in 
> the gallery of all of the newbies blooming  :-)
> 
> I have to be honest and say that the bloomstalks on the iris are not 
> going to 
> reach their registration height.  This doesn't surprise me since 
> they are all 
> new plantings.   They just weren't well established before winter 
> set in.....
> 
> I'm a little nervous about this coming week.  I have many TB's where 
> the 
> stalk has broken the fan and we are scheduled to have a 30 degree 
> night in 
> Nashville which means it'll probably hit the mid to upper 20's out 
> here in the 
> country.  This will spell some trouble for my exposed stalks if the 
> temp hits that 
> low for any amount of time.....
> 
> Just for a list of what I have blooming for now...
> 
> Eye of Newt
> Chemistry
> Pookie
> Half Moon
> Matter of Fact
> Cliche
> 
> Others showing color:
> Cat's Eye
> Pink Frosting
> Bourgeois
> 
> In another thread about Botritis - I had it in a couple of rhizomes 
> from 
> Cooley's.  I had an in-depth conversation with Paul about it and 
> said that I 
> really didn't have to worry too much about it this far south.  After 
> the infected 
> rhizomes died, the fungus would go away due to our hot summers as it 
> really 
> likes it cool and moist.
> 
> I'll give you more updates soon!
> 
> - -Ev.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 04:57:03 -0400
> From: "Bob & Donna Lockman" <thelockmans@tntie.com>
> Subject: RE: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> John,
> What was the name on the product you found? It sounds like it might 
> 
>  be worth a try, if I can find it here.
> I am enjoying Jade Stone, Sun Doll, Chickee, and others...Jade Stone 
> is 
> just so pretty to me...I have some tall bearded ones blooming too. 
> Just 
> love irises of all kinds!
> Donna Lockman
> NC z7/8
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-iris@hort.net [mailto:owner-iris@hort.net]On Behalf Of 
> John
> Bruce
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:15 PM
> To: iris@hort.net
> Subject: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> 
> While out today picking up chemicals for the garden, I had a 
> thought
> to ask if there was a liquid form of imidacloprid (active ingredient 
> in
> Merit). Indeed there is-- a concentrate that can be sprayed directly 
> on
> the plants. It is much faster acting than the granular form due to 
> the
> application method. It is also supposed to be season-long, unlike 
> Cygon
> which has to be applied at two week intervals. It is priced 
> similarly to
> the 15# bags, at about 28$. I am going to give it a try and keep my 
> fingers
> crossed. It is also listed to be effective against aphids, thrips, 
> leaf
> miners
> and several other pests. Squirrels are not listed, unfortunately. 
> :(
> 
> John Bruce
> Hidden Acres Iris Gardens
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:59:13 -0400
> From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
> Subject: [iris] Re: CULT: Botrytis 
> 
> Laurie--Botrytis, when it does show up, showed a fuzzy dark grey 
> coating
> around the base and perhaps as much as an inch up the fans that  had 
> looked
> perfectly healthy at first,  I don't remember any that looked 
> brownish, but
> that may have been because of different conditions between Idaho 
> and
> Minnesota.
> 
> As the ground warmed, it became obvious the plant was dead, but 
> sometimes
> (when dug) part of the older part of the rhizome survived.  The 
> rhizome had
> built a "firewall" of sorts.  Any potential increase from that toe 
> tended to
> grow at an astonishing pace when planted in fresh soil.
> 
> I usually just got rid of a good shovel-full of the soil in 
> immediate contact
> with the rhizome.  The infected rhizome tended to have masses of the 
> fungal
> fruiting bodies which looked like shiney clusters of seeds.  Yours 
> may look
> different.
> 
> There is a discussion beginning on p. 339 in TWOI but the author's
> descriptions include symptoms not visible from the surface during 
> the fall and
> winter.  My own memory may be faulty....
> 
> Some of the Wisconsin or Minnesota folks may be better responders 
> than I on
> how Botrytis looks in your area.
> 
> Neil Mogensen    z  7  western NC
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:09:39 -0400
> From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
> Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: inside the pod (was on photos list
> 
> Interesting, Patrick - pollen here is hardly ever (never?) fluffy on 
> a
> freshly or partially opened flower.  I attempt most crosses early in 
> the
> day with pollen collected the previous afternoon or from flowers 
> that
> opened the day before.  Our nighttime humidity is usually 100%, 
> which
> may explain the difference. ?
> 
> Sharon, I like the idea of making crosses for sacrifice to sort out 
> what
> is going on in the developing (or, as you are discussing), the
> non-developing pod.  I do have two cultivars that reliably produce
> highly fertile pollen, but no equally reliable pod parents yet.  
> But
> there are some healthy growers here that I haven't tried to use for 
> pods
> that might work....
> 
> By the time of season I am usually seeing non-freeze damaged 
> blooms,
> capable of setting pods & producing pollen, days are often hot, 
> windy
> and dry here as well.  I have been wondering if some shade, mulch, 
> or
> extra water/Miracle Gro as the pod is developing might yield a 
> higher
> percentage of seeds that would germinate, but hadn't considered 
> stress
> immediately after making the cross.
> 
> <You can get the best
>                    most fluffiest pollen on a freshly opened or
> partially opened flower early in the
>                    morning when it is still cool, and it still will 
> not
> produce a pod.
> 
>                    Patrick Orr
>                    Phoenix, AZ  ZOne 9>
> 
> <Post-mortems reveals that most of my problems occurred in the very
> early stage,
>                    before the folded flower had dropped off of the
> ovary.  Our hot, dry winds tend to dessicate the
>                    flower and turn it into a wind-catching flag. 
> Simply
> cutting the flower off as soon as it was dry
>                    increased my success rate enormously. Sharon
> McAllister>
> 
> - --
> Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
> East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.korrnet.org/etis>
> American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
> talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
> photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
> online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:18:42 -0400
> From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
> Subject: [iris] Re: Re: TB: Cloud Berry, Louisa's Song
> 
> I did a more careful check of conditions after reading more of the 
> responses
> on this thread.
> 
> Bloom will be scarce but not entirely missing--I found several SDB's 
> with
> stalks just about to emerge from the fans, and a number of TB's 
> beginning to
> be more obviously "pregnant" with bloomstalks still hidden but 
> present.
> 
> Griff--even though our winter minima (the basis for the USDA zones, 
> I believe)
> are just barely into "zone 7" that is a recent rezoning.  We were in 
> the
> warmer side of zone 6 in the older maps.  Our elevation here is 
> about 2300
> feet, and our season on bloom ordinarily runs about a week behind 
> river level
> seasons in the Asheville/Hendersonville areas, even though our 
> winter temps
> are about the same.
> 
> From Donna Lockman's description of their season we are at least ten 
> days
> behind Charlotte at this point.
> 
> Neil Mogensen     zone ?7  western NC
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:25:51 -0400
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> Donna--
> 
> It is Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub Insect Control. It states on the 
> label
> that " imidacloprid is the chemical name for Merit". The only 
> apparent
> difference
> in liquid and granule is the amount of active ingredient. The 
> granular is
> 0.2%
> imidacloprid, while the liquid concentrate is 1.47%. I think I will 
> test
> this on part of
> the iris beds this season.
> 
> http://www.bayeradvanced.com/garden/products/details.cfm?id=12
> 
> 
> - ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob & Donna Lockman" <thelockmans@tntie.com>
> > John,
> > What was the name on the product you found? It sounds like it 
> might
> >  be worth a try, if I can find it here.
> > I am enjoying Jade Stone, Sun Doll, Chickee, and others...Jade 
> Stone is
> > just so pretty to me...I have some tall bearded ones blooming too. 
> Just
> > love irises of all kinds!
> > Donna Lockman
> > NC z7/8
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:43:47 -0500
> From: "LARRY ROBINSON" <LARRY_739@msn.com>
> Subject: [iris] RE: CULT: Borer control-a new twist
> 
> I use the granular form of Merit because of the climate/growth 
> patterns
> in my garden.  Up here in northern MN, it's possible to hit 70 
> degrees
> quite early in the spring before the irises have had a chance to 
> grow
> much at all.  If it's true that borer eggs hatch at 70 degrees, we 
> can
> have borer larvae emerging before iris fans.  I've often wondered 
> where
> borer larvae go under such circumstances and assumed they head 
> straight
> for the rhizomes.  Obviously, a foliar spray won't protect my irises 
> when
> they have little or no foliage, so I use the granules instead.
> 
> Thanks for the tip, Laurie.  I applied my Merit today in a light 
> drizzle.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of iris DIGEST V1 #105
> **************************
> 
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