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Re: CULT: Trial garden form

     This email is in response to a multiple of emails from you all.
Apparently I may be dreaming, but I certainly hope not.  I tried to keep it as
short as I could and still get my points made, but please take time to read it
and hopefully equal thought and time to respond at your convenience.  Just a
few things got under my skin and being that this is a hobby of a passionate
nature I feel I had to say some things.  There is no intention to offend
anyone's perspective.  This is a discussion group and and good intentions can
be lost in the written word.

      The following comment sounds somewhat bitter to me. I believe was made
by Linda.

<It's way over the top for gardeners in areas where <many> cultivars
fail.  The World of Iris warns that bearded iris will <not> live in a
zone not far south of where I am.  That's an exaggeration, but it <is>
true that many/most TB's selected in a Mediterranean type climate will
not live here.  Why we started calling it the 'death zone', "vale of
despair/despond", etc.

  Granted, Linda, you are taking matters into your own hands and breeding your
own lines. I'm sure you like/want/need to eventually incorporate new genetic
material from new cultivars?  If a plant dies because of your climate then you
would simply only be taking one year's worth of data, if that.  If it doesn't
bloom then you won't be taking that data either.  Plus hybridizers
specifically looking for cultivars with Mediterranean tolerance would be your
climate's main focus and they would be sending you plants with the appropriate
genetic background. A GREAT ADVANTAGE  for you as you would get first dibs at
pollen from the best performers ( Note: it wouldn't be wise to get pods from
the trialed plants as that would affect the data on their growth).  All you
would need is to probably get permission from the hybridizer and/or at least
the parental information for use in future registration.   I feel that a
negative attitude about evaluating ( I won't try it becuase they may or may
not die or won't bloom) might end up excluding you from particpating in the
BEARDED Iris Trial Group.  I'm sure that'as not what you want.

     So, no the form is not over the top, you needn't even fill out the
information becuase it would be of no concern to you because the plant died or
didn't bloom.  And a form would be filled out for each year assuming it
survived and the hybridizer wants you to continue evaluating it..  People
would also be doing the same for you if you submitted your seedlings.  If a
cultivar survives then it's data can then be used to breed BETTER deep south
performers.  The data is primarily for use by the BREEDERS not the AIS, except
to promote it's use in one fashion of another after the cultivar has been
REGISTERED.  A catalog description when someone officially introduces the
variety it will have in it's description its attributes (such as Mediterranean
climate vigor) and usually that carries throughout it's publication in various
sources.  And there is nothing wrong with it being written into it's
registration information now that an official AIS Test Garden Forum has deemed
it to be true.  There was no way to justify writing that sort of information
in the past because these kinds of tests have not been done before and many
times a variety is either registered the same year or even BEFORE it's actual
introduction by the hybridizer.  The testing was done with it's rampant
distrubution and trial by gardeners all over who want to try to grow it
(referencing aftermarket testing by Anner).  Hence your frustration and "death
zone" and "vail of despair".  Do you want to be part of the solution?  Those
who do should be encouraged to be part of the Trial Garden Forum.

     Keep in mind the purpose of the Hybridizer Seedling Test Gardens and the
Varietal Test Gardens would be different in focus, purpose and expectations.
Also the guest irises for the Hybridizer Seedling Test Gardens would be free
to them, I would think.  I cannot imagine charging someone to grow something
for me and take data on it.  An Introduced and Registered variety would be
another matter and would be up to the hybridizers and/or AIS to determine

     I can ABSOLUTELY imagine a hybridizer sending their iris to a climate
where they might potentially die.  We are attempting to hold hybridizers and
out beloved Iris to a higher standard.  That is the specific purpose of this
group.  Usually by the time I have selected a particular seedling for further
evaluation I have PLENTY of it to go around.  So losing ALL of it (except for
the few I should have kept for myself) to other's gardens' situations could
only be a plus to the whole process.

Also responding to these comments.....

<<<"gardenability" over a broad geographical area, is not among
the goals
by the preponderance of them, who are breeding for new  breaks of color and
form. >>>

<What advantage is there to beauty that blooms only in a forest at

<More pondering.  <vbg>>

     I would agree.  I would say most breeders are looking to recoup some
money by introducing new varieties.  I can't blame them.  They have
contributed an incredible amount to the VISUAL advancement if the Iris as well
as some significant cultural advancements.  It is now time to take our plant
to the next step.  This group is for people willing to do just that.  Do we
need another supposedly awesome blue iris by yet another hybridizer?

    Referring to jgcrump's comments.... I do agree and I'm not suggesting that
an variety not be introduced due to some unfavorable reports during the
testing.  Simply to know what a variety's tendencies are to further the Iris
genome for it's long term improvement.  We have to start somewhere, right?
It's probably about 50 years too early to start culling varieties based on
poor Trial Garden evaluations from Introduction or Registration.  It's just
time to start looking for a higher standard.  When that standard becomes more
common, then that is what will be EXPECTED of all new varieties if not MOST

However, I'll let you guys in on a little secret.  I do have color breaks in
my lines and have yet to do anything with them other than use them for
breeding stock because they are not up to my expectations (i.e. most colors
and some patterns, and yes, RED).  I am holding myself to the higher standard
that I mentioned earlier.

Original Message:--------

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