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RE: Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked


I am following this thread with more interest than understanding.  I am well
aware that what our eyes see as black is merely an intensification of dark
pigments.  I have two sets of what I consider black seedlings, but one is
from predominantly purple pigments and the other is predominantly red.  I
understand about clusters of Anthrocyanin globules in black irises.  Those
would be the purple-blacks, I believe.  Does the same thing occur in the
red-blacks?  I am posting on Iris Photos pictures of one of each of these
types.

Francelle Edwards  Glendale, AZ  Zone 9


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-iris@hort.net [mailto:owner-iris@hort.net] On Behalf Of
irischapman@aim.com
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 4:50 AM
To: iris@hort.net
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked

Black iris  have a special  dark pigment comming from Iris aphylla. It 
would appear that this involves Anthrocyanin vascular intrusions (AVI)  
These involve clusters of anthocyanin in globules  with a protein base. 
They form clumps inside the cell vacuole and help make  the anthocyanin 
much darker. A deep purple when  no yellow in flower, black when it 
also occurs with  yellow.  For more information on this look at my 
articles in BAIS on this topic.

The "I" factor will not remove all the anthocyanin in these situations 
(dark purple or black), but several dosages of "I" will remove it.

The AVI can ocur in cell vacuole without the water soluble anthocyanin 
in the vacuole. this can cause a dusky colouration as in standards of 
Ziggy, where I have found AVI but no purple cell sap.  This could 
possibly be connected with "green" iris.

Chuck Chapman

Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:07:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked

Hey gang,

Okay, I wasn't much interested in the whole discussion of glaciatas, 
but the
comment about glaciata being a recessive of a recessive caught my 
interest.
Can someone Punnett Square that for me?

I was trying to muddle all the plicata info in this post away from the
anthocyanin info and decided to refer back to some archive posts I had 
printed
out on the subject.  The only thing I'm sure of after that is that 
"blue" and
"white" can be lumped together genetically...at least as far as I'm 
interested
in blue and white per se.

BUT... I stumbled on a notation that caught my attention... as it may 
relate
more directly to personal goals.  In a post relating to anthocyanin 
dated Feb
08, 2003 Neil Morgensen stated that "The pigments involved in the 
blacks tend
to penetrate through the I factor."  This caught my attention because I 
have
noted that "green" irises sometimes come from "black" pedigrees, and 
have
wondered how that was possible.

If I understand the context correctly he's seperating two types of 
"white"
irises... recessive white and...well I'm unclear.

Somebody help me clear up the fog?  And if anyone has pictures of 
irises with
this "penetration" of dark pigments through the I factor, I would find 
them
very interesting.

Christian






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