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RE: Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked

Let me see if I'm crossing O's.  You are saying that black is usually a result
of the AVI in the presence of yellow pigments, I think I understand that
part.  And you are saying that the AVI genetically speaking comes from
aphylla, but since there is no yellow in aphylla we don't see "black"
Assuming everybody got off on the same track with me, are you saying that
these AVI pigments are the type of anthocyanin pigments that express even
through a full dosage of the I (inhibitor) gene. 
If that is true, and the AVI can be expressed with yellow-to give black-
then... I think what I need to know is do the AVI inheirit independently from
the type of anthocyanin that is expressed in say Breakers or Dusky
I remember that one of the ideas that got me interested in greens in the first
place was that yellow and blue pigments are expressed in different layers in
the flesh of the petal.  So in the brain fog I'm thinking... if you could get
a self expression of yellow in one layer, and a half I inhibitor self
expression of blue in another layer... then maybe you could get green.  But if
the AVI's are seperate from the layer of anthocyanin...then maybe you could
just get a yellow base and top off with AVI.   Am I mechanically in the right
ball field?

--- On Mon, 8/4/08, irischapman@aim.com <irischapman@aim.com> wrote:

From: irischapman@aim.com <irischapman@aim.com>
Subject: RE: [iris] Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked
To: iris@hort.net
Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:50 PM

I'm assuming that it is.  The flowers can only be so dark with AVI. the
difference between red-black and purple-black would be in intensity of
the anthocyanin. If it can be traced back to aphylla then it  very
probabply has AVI. Without AVI ther is a limit in how dark the
anthocyanin can be. Dark purples also have AVI.  Aphyllas don't have
much yellow pigment, so can't be black. It takes AVI plus deep yellow
to get really black iris.

To check this out, put a black petal into a bowl and pour  boiling
water on it. It may take several tries, but when you get all the
anthoycyanin out  the petal  that is left is deep yellow-gold. I havn't
tried it with a  red-black, but have done it with a dark red and the
same thing.

Chuck Chapman

Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 21:26:55 -0700
From: "Francelle" <fjmjedwards@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: [iris] Re: Anthocyanin-sidetracked

I am following this thread with more interest than understanding.  I am
aware that what our eyes see as black is merely an intensification of
pigments.  I have two sets of what I consider black seedlings, but one
 from predominantly purple pigments and the other is predominantly red.
understand about clusters of Anthrocyanin globules in black irises.
would be the purple-blacks, I believe.  Does the same thing occur in the
red-blacks?  I am posting on Iris Photos pictures of one of each of

Francelle Edwards  Glendale, AZ  Zone 9

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