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Re: iris DIGEST V1 #786

  • Subject: Re: iris DIGEST V1 #786
  • From: <inanda1@mts.net>
  • Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:55:20 -0600

> From: iris-owner@hort.net (iris DIGEST)
> Date: 2009/02/17 Tue AM 10:45:04 CST
> To: iris-digest@hort.net
> Subject: [iris] iris DIGEST V1 #786
> 
> 
> iris DIGEST         Tuesday, February 17 2009         Volume 01 : Number 786
> 
> 
> 
> In this issue:
> 
>         [iris] Re:  HYB: Seed Germination
>         [iris] HYB: Seed Germination
>         [iris] Fw: Milette's "borrowing" photos
>         Re: [iris] Fw: Milette's "borrowing" photos
>         [iris] HYB: Germination
>         Re: [iris] OT: BIO, new to forum
>         Re: [iris] HYB: seed germination
>         Re: [iris] HYB: Seed Germination
>         [iris] Re: HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:51:42 -0500
> From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
> Subject: [iris] Re:  HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> Interesting that you saw that lull, followed by more germination too, 
> Mary Lou.  Almost makes me wish I'd left all the seeds in the fridge 
> except for the ones that had sprouted, but that kind of handling of ~100 
> different crosses is impossible for my slow, easily distracted self. 
> Waay too many opportunities to mix up labels!
> 
> I usually start out just squishing aphids too, but when they get really 
> bad, sprinkle a little systemic pesticide on each pot.  Probably 
> wouldn't do that on pots inside the house tho.
> 
> Aphid problems seem to start here when there are other frost sensitive 
> plants moved onto the sunporch for the winter - I always assumed the wee 
> bugs came indoors that way.
> 
> But the miracle gro is higher nitrogen than germination mix I've used in 
> the past and is causing more lush top growth & that <may> be more 
> appetizing to aphids.  They certainly were flourishing before 
> application of the pesticide granules a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> <Having to patrol for aphids (I think that's what they are) about
> every other day.  First year using Miracle Gro potting mix, first
> year I've seen this problem in any but outdoor iris potted to
> winter indoors.  These critters can suck the life out of seedlings
> in just a few days.  Don't like spraying insecticide in the house, so
> I'm squishing them.>
> 
> - -- 
> Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
> East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>
> Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee <http://www.aisregion7.org>
> American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
> talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
> photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
> online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:14:19 +0000
> From: D S <proverb_31@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [iris] HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> Thanks everyone, for your warm welcome.
> 
> Yes, hybridizing anything seems to be more than a bit compulsive. Good Lord,
> who but the compulsively obsessed would think its fun to look through bags of
> hundereds of seeds nearly every day to see if any might have germinated! Glad
> to be in good company! :)
> 
> I looked through the archives for information on germinating indoors. I saw
> some posts with pictures but got a little confused because the pictures look
> like my daylily seeds more than my iris seeds???
> 
> I have a couple of specific questions that maybe you all can shed some
> knowledge on.
> 
> One is that the instructions I followed called for a two week period of daily
> rinsing the seeds before stratifying them in the fridge. Is that rinsing
> required for bearded or only with siberians?
> 
> I treated them all the same so my process was to harvest as soon as the pod
> started to crack open (mostly Aug but some in Sept). I shelled the pods & put
> the seeds into bits of stocking, then soaked them in a cup of water that was
> changed daily for 2 weeks. The seeds were never allowed to dry.
> 
> Then I put the damp seeds into plastic bags and stored in the fridge. By the
> end of Sept they were all in the fridge.
> 
> At New Years I took them out of the fridge & added a 10% mix of
> peroxide:distilled water just as I do for daylily seed and put them in a
> closet that is slightly above room temperature, changing the peroxide solution
> every 3-5 days. The peroxide adds airation & in some seeds helps to stimulate
> germination.
> 
> I had a few germinations (
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_02200
> 9
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:50:04 -0500
> From: "Williams, Michael" <Michael.Williams@hgtc.edu>
> Subject: [iris] Fw: Milette's "borrowing" photos
> 
> I read with interest this account, since my name is included.
> 
> 
> 
> I went to the website, and it seems that he has removed the Iris photos;
> however, hostas and daylilies photos are still present.
> 
> 
> 
> Loic: did you receive a response from him?
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mike Williams (a.k.a. Mike in Myrtle Beach)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:15:55 +0100
> From: "loic tasquier" <tasquierloic@cs.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Fw: Milette's "borrowing" photos
> 
> I don't think an response is in his agenda.....
> 
> By taking off the whole chapter about Irises from his web site he acknowledged
> everything we've said, Chuck, Griffin, and I, and that's the maximum we should
> ask for.
> Apologies might get the public humiliation a weenie bit to far...!
> 
> Let's have mercy, shall we?
> 
> Looc
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Williams, Michael
>   To: iris@hort.net
>   Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:50 PM
>   Subject: [iris] Fw: Milette's "borrowing" photos
> 
> 
>   I read with interest this account, since my name is included.
> 
> 
> 
>   I went to the website, and it seems that he has removed the Iris photos;
>   however, hostas and daylilies photos are still present.
> 
> 
> 
>   Loic: did you receive a response from him?
> 
> 
> 
>   Sincerely,
> 
>   Mike Williams (a.k.a. Mike in Myrtle Beach)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:25:14 -0500
> From: "Mary Swann-Young" <MryL1@msn.com>
> Subject: [iris] HYB: Germination
> 
> Everybody has their own way of doing things.
> 
> I let my bearded seeds completely dry after shelling them out.
> Soak them for 6 days in little plastic condiment cups, rinsing
> every other day.
> On the seventh day, I wash them a little with antibacterial soap,
> rinse them well, wrap them up with their plastic number tag in
> a small piece of paper towel, put that "burrito" in a ziplock bag
> along with others in the same batch of crosses, and write them
> in my notebook.
> Ziplock bags go in the crisper in the bottom of the fridge.
> 
> I start checking TBs after about 60 days have passed, 45 days for
> SDBs. Since each seed may require a different length of chilling, I
> plant sprouts, not seeds.  I put the cross marker in the pot
> and start planting behind it, moving clockwise around the edge
> and recording each planting in my notebook.  If I've already planted
> six in the pot, I can later count spaces, even if they're not up yet,
> and continue planting where I left off.  I plant very shallow, then add
> dirt as needed after they're up.
> 
> Soil needs to be fairly damp until they break ground, then drier than
> you'd think, or they're liable to damp off.  Make them reach for moisture.
> 
> It's not unusual to see no sprouts until 5 months of chilling with some
> parents.  I routinely see sprouts after a year of chilling with some.
> Not unusual to have sprouts that never break gound.  Happens here
> particularly with the earliest sprouts in some crosses.
> 
> Hope this helps.  Glad to meet another cold climate dauber.
> 
> Mary Lou, near Indianapolis, Z5
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:06:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] OT: BIO, new to forum
> 
> Hey there Debra,
> 
> Don't worry about those stubborn seeds.  It took me a few
> years to get appreciable germination.  I like the burrito method.  I just put
> my seeds into the baggie as soon as I harvest... no drying.  I'm still having
> a signifigant number of seedlings fail to "pop-tart" after they germinate, and
> this is my fifth year of seeds.
> 
> If it was easy it wouldn't be challenging.
> 
> I
> recognised Timnath,  I'm from Loveland.
> 
> Christian
> ________________________________
> From: D S <proverb_31@hotmail.com>
> To:
> iris@hort.net
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:15:08 PM
> Subject: [iris] OT:
> BIO, new to forum
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> I'm so glad to have finally stumbled onto
> this forum!
> 
> I joined HIPS in Oct 2007 but only joined the AIS last month
> after being
> inspired by a fellow member of my local daylily club during our
> holiday
> potluck meeting. Unfortunately he passed away just as we were getting
> to know
> one another and share our interest in iris.
> 
> I'm in northern CO, AIS
> region 20. I'm so looking forward to attending the
> region 20 winter member's
> meeting later this month.
> 
> My interest in iris, gardening in general, and
> garden photography goes back to
> my earliest childhood memories. I gardened
> with my parents and grandmothers.
> One of my grandmothers, now 103yo,
> hybridized iris as a backyard hobby. She
> gave me a seedling when I was in my
> 20s and I kick myself now for having no
> idea what it was that I had been
> given. I let it go when I sold the property.
> 
> I have a lot of interests and
> hobbies but gardening is one of them that I
> always return to. It is a lifetime
> passion.
> 
> I began a landscape design & install in 2005 which was finally ready
> for
> planting in the fall of 2007. That is when I earnestly returned to my
> passion
> of gardening. In the process I was trying to identify some historic
> iris that
> were given to me by my neighbors and stumbled upon HIPS. As I looked
> through
> the photo's I began to be more and more drawn to historic forms. I
> noticed a
> large variety of historics at a local cemetary where some of my
> ancestors are
> buried so decided to begin a project to ID and hopefully map the
> historic iris
> at that cemetary. I love history and have been enjoying reading
> about the
> developments in iris over the years in the book "The World of Iris".
> At the same time I began an interest in daylilies and began hybridizing both
> iris & daylilies this past season. Most of the iris I have to work with are
> unidentified. I'm experimenting with crosses of historics x moderns.
> 
> Mostly
> in regards to iris I'm just trying to figure out the process. I made a
> lot of
> seed this year but am not having great success yet germinating them.
> Because I
> live in a z5 climate I'd like to get a jump on nature by starting
> seed
> indoors. I attempted to follow the directions for starting seed indoors
> found
> in the article "Germinating Iris Seeds" by John Coble and Bob Bauer
> which is
> posted at the Canadian Iris Society website. Since Jan 1 when I
> brought the
> seeds out to germinate at room temperatures (after following the
> rinse &
> refrigeration recommendations) I have had a few germinations but once
> planted
> none of those germinated seeds has emerged with leaves. I have some
> siberians
> that had a few emerge using the same process. The seeds have now
> been back in
> the fridge for a few more weeks to try once again to break the
> seed dormancy.
> I'm a single mom to 5.5 yo special needs (autism) twins so gardening is
> "therapy" for me :)
> 
> Well, that's me. I sure look forward to getting to know
> you all better.
> 
> Debra Scott
> Timnath CO z5, reg 20
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows
> Live: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To
> sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> message text
> UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:26:31 -0800 (PST)
> From: christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: seed germination
> 
> Linda,
> 
> I continue to have a steady number of active pods though nothing like
> that one week.  My husband announced that he had fixed the refrigerator a
> couple days after I potted up the last one.  I guess he thought the fridge was
> a little warm that week.  
> 
> Yes, I am still seeing the pattern you describe, a
> few germinants to start the pod followed by a gap of about four calendar weeks
> with no activity in that pod, followed by a bit of a spurt.   No pods have
> "finished" either.
> 
> Still 5 pods that have not yet Germinated 1 (G1) out of
> 126.   If memory serves those pods are also just now showing the coffee
> colored stain on the paper towel, which may be significant.  
> 
> Come first of
> March I'm going to have to cull soft seeds and see what I have left.  I may go
> ahead and allow all seeds to come to room temp for a week or so, haven't
> decided.  I'm in school now, so I may not want to actually germinate all my
> seeds.  Plus, it might be fun to carry out the experiment.  I'll also have to
> start lining out at that time.  Some of my older sprouts are holding on by a
> thread, so I'll have to risk the frost.
> 
> Christian
> ________________________________
> From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
> To:
> iris@hort.net
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:52:02 AM
> Subject: [iris] HYB:
> seed germination
> 
> Christian, how are your seeds that you are leaving in the
> fridge forever doing?
> 
> I was surprised to find ~50 more germinants this week
> in the one cross that I've left in the fridge, just to see what happened.  ~50
> had germinated off and on, half a dozen every few days for about a month, then
> a pause for several weeks, then all of a sudden, a huge flush of another 50
> sprouts.
> 
> I think that's sort of the pattern of germination you have seen too?
> The cross is HARVEST OF MEMORIES X ABBONDANZA, 3 pods, 225 seeds. Unshelled
> pods went into baggies in the fridge in mid July, as pods were just barely
> starting to split.  Seeds shelled & counted & rinsed & wrapped in damp paper
> towels rolled into burritos in Sept, first germinants... I'll have to dig out
> my notes, but I think the first ones were in November (4 months chilling),
> this most recent big flush of germinants in mid-Feb were chilled for 7
> months!!
> 
> Which makes me think (as maybe you have already suggested?) that the
> second year germinants I see here where winters don't always last very long
> (certainly not 7 months) may not need two cycles of chilling, just more total
> time chilling.
> 
> That's still only about 50% germination, but that's sometimes
> about all that comes from some of the IMM & HoM crosses.
> 
> - -- Linda Mann east
> Tennessee USA zone 7/8
> East Tennessee Iris Society
> <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>
> Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee
> <http://www.aisregion7.org>
> American Iris Society web site
> <http://www.irises.org>
> talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
> photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
> online R&I
> <http://www.irisregister.com>
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To
> sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> message text
> UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:47:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> Debra,
> 
> I wonder two things in looking at your post.  One, and only because
> you didn't specifically say it... did you put a damp paper towel in the baggie
> with the seeds?  I've been experimenting this year and it appears that about
> 8cc of water to a whole regular sized paper towel is about right.  I just fold
> my papertowel neatly and lay the seeds in beside it.
> 
> Two, it is not an
> absolute requirement that you rinse the seeds at all, or dry them.  Oh,
> wait... if you dry them out you have to soak them... not just rinse them.   I
> did that one year and decided it was too much trouble.  (Meanwhile I will pot
> each and every seed into an individual pot... go figure)  It seems the
> critical thing is the leeching away part.  I observe leaching away as a coffee
> colored stain on the paper towel, and then I switch the paper towel out.  I
> have germinated day lilly seeds the same way so I suspect sauce for the
> goose...
> 
> Another stage that appears to be critical... which may not have been
> mentioned... ever ... in the archives... is that the seeds go through a
> "slime" stage.  I think this is usually about two weeks before the paper towel
> is stained.  Depending on the lot the seeds will be anywhere from so oily they
> slip from between fingers to completely covered in phlegmy slime.  In my seeds
> the slime stage is 4-6 weeks after harvest for those pods that G1 first. 
> Other pods take longer to slime and stain...
> 
> I also think that there is a
> post leaching end of the line stage.  I have observed some pods which slime
> and stain and then seem to dry out.  This is even when the amount of water in
> the burrito remains constant.  I think that at a point the oil in the seed
> coat is completely gone, and if the seed has not germinated the seed coat
> becomes so porus that it allows the germ structures to rot.  Seeds at this
> stage feel something like a piece of peat moss, with similar crumble quality.
> Christian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: D S
> <proverb_31@hotmail.com>
> To: iris@hort.net
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009
> 3:14:19 PM
> Subject: [iris] HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> Thanks everyone, for your
> warm welcome.
> 
> Yes, hybridizing anything seems to be more than a bit
> compulsive. Good Lord,
> who but the compulsively obsessed would think its fun
> to look through bags of
> hundereds of seeds nearly every day to see if any
> might have germinated! Glad
> to be in good company! :)
> 
> I looked through the
> archives for information on germinating indoors. I saw
> some posts with
> pictures but got a little confused because the pictures look
> like my daylily
> seeds more than my iris seeds???
> 
> I have a couple of specific questions that
> maybe you all can shed some
> knowledge on.
> 
> One is that the instructions I
> followed called for a two week period of daily
> rinsing the seeds before
> stratifying them in the fridge. Is that rinsing
> required for bearded or only
> with siberians?
> 
> I treated them all the same so my process was to harvest as
> soon as the pod
> started to crack open (mostly Aug but some in Sept). I shelled
> the pods & put
> the seeds into bits of stocking, then soaked them in a cup of
> water that was
> changed daily for 2 weeks. The seeds were never allowed to dry.
> Then I put the damp seeds into plastic bags and stored in the fridge. By the
> end of Sept they were all in the fridge.
> 
> At New Years I took them out of the
> fridge & added a 10% mix of
> peroxide:distilled water just as I do for daylily
> seed and put them in a
> closet that is slightly above room temperature,
> changing the peroxide solution
> every 3-5 days. The peroxide adds airation & in
> some seeds helps to stimulate
> germination.
> 
> I had a few germinations (
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows
> Live: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_02200
> 9
> 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To
> sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> message text
> UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:38:39 -0500
> From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
> Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: Seed Germination
> 
> Mary Lou, I didn't realize you were leaving your seeds in the fridge for 
> more than a year also!  Goodness, I feel like such a slouch!
> 
> <I routinely see sprouts after a year of chilling with some. Mary Lou>
> 
> Actually, that <may> not be true (with the usual caveat of "for all 
> crosses").  For sure, it wasn't true with the two crosses of dried seeds 
> Loic sent me this year.  Germination hasn't been great, but all I did 
> was wrap the dried seeds in dry paper towels, roll into a burritos, dunk 
> the burritos into a pan of water, squeeze the excess out, repeat a 
> couple of times (to give them a little rinse), then baggie each burrito, 
> loosely closed, and put them in the fridge with the rest.
> 
> As for leaching, from what I read way back when, I don't think it 
> matters whether or not the water soluble germination inhibitors are 
> leached out <before> or <after> the chilling process.  But just to be 
> sure they've been rinsed, I try to remember to really soak (and let 
> drain well) the seed pots after planting ungerminated chilled seeds. 
> Simulated spring showers that bring May flowers. :-)
> 
> I also soak and squeeze replacement paper towels whenever they start to 
> shred.  Unlike Christian, I don't replace them when they are dirty, just 
> when they get holes in them.
> 
> <.. if you dry them out you have to soak them... not just rinse them. 
> ...It seems the critical thing is the leaching away part. Christian>
> 
> Amen!  Your comment gave me a good laugh this AM.  Definitely a 
> community of the obsessed, and <great> to have a new participant.
> 
> <Good Lord,
> who but the compulsively obsessed would think its fun to look through 
> bags of
> hundereds of seeds nearly every day to see if any might have germinated! 
> Glad
> to be in good company! :)....>
> 
> Fresh TB seeds vary a <lot> in appearance from almost square, big fat 
> things to weasley little immitation rat droppings, depending in part on 
> how many seeds were in the pod (generally bigger if few seeds in a full 
> sized pod), genetics?, weather during pod maturation? who knows what. 
> I've had at least two pods of seeds germinate where my notes have said 
> "seeds all bad" because they were so small, irregular, and shriveled. 
> When refrigerated fresh, some stay plump, black and shiny, others go 
> slimy (I haven't been paying as close attention to the slimy stage as 
> Christian) almost immediately, some look like they dry in the damp 
> baggie.  If you are referring to the sequence I posted of potting up 
> burrito'd seeds, those are the fat black shiny kind.
> 
> <the pictures look like my daylily seeds more than my iris seeds???..D S>
> 
> FYI - first year germination ranges from 30 to 100%.  I haven't tried to 
> keep up with number of germinants as well as I used to, other than the 
> first big wave.  Average % germination seems to be steadily increasing, 
> seems to be closer to 50% now, compared to starting out at around 3% 
> with "nature's" way outdoor planting.
> 
> Like Christian, if growing and blooming irises had been easy here, I 
> would <never> have started trying to breed my own.  Love the flower, 
> love the challenge.
> - -- 
> Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
> East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>
> Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee <http://www.aisregion7.org>
> American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
> talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
> photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
> online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of iris DIGEST V1 #786
> **************************
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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