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HYB:Traits:pod vs pollen

  • Subject: HYB:Traits:pod vs pollen
  • From: autmirislvr@aol.com
  • Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:08:17 -0500

<<Basically it would seem that stem/branching and colour (maybe mostly
> relating to dominant whites) are more pod related than pollen related,
> however rebloom seems unrelated to whether I use pod or pollen. Foliage
> colour and plant vigor seems unrelated also.>>

During my first season of crossing irises I made 17 crosses.??I'd already done a lot of research?and used irises that had some rebloom history. At the time, Autumn Encore was my only true rebloomer.? 
Among those crosses were Highland Chief x Peach Spot and the reverse.? These two crosses gave some very distinctively different seedlings.? 

Peach Spot as the pod parent (12) gave strange seedlings with four large blooms.? In color, most of the seedlings were an off white with brown veins.? Height was short. The branching was a bit awkward with terminals that I can only call "weak."? There was one seedling that occasionally fall bloomed.? It's garden name was "Big Bertha" (sorry to anyone named Bertha out there.) and used in at least one cross.? 

Highland Chief X Peach Spot (05) gave taller seedlings with bud placements from five up, with good branching.? One rough textured deep orange had 3 terminals.? Color patterns were quite varied.? I really liked these seedlings and kept many of them for several years.? 

Each cross had 20+ seedlings.? I didn't compare growth at the time, but most of the 05 seedlings were quite strong in every way.??

I used the parents and?several of the seedlings in?an educational exhibit at one of our shows. ?I clerked behind a judge that questioned the reasoning of a hybridizer that would make such a bazaar cross!??He just couldn't imagine why anyone would have made that cross!? 

I feel lucky to have experienced this early in my breeding history.? It still ranks as one of my favorite iris experiences.? I've since learned that plicata amoena crosses often give interesting children.?

I've two crosses that I can check in the spring . . . Tara's Choice x Again & Again and the reverse.? Some gave maiden bloom in the spring of 2008.? At this point, I'm most pleased with the ones that have TC as the pod parent.?

I've seedlings from Edith Wolford as pod parent that seem to have distinctive branching.? 

I'll check my records for other reverse crosses.? 

In the beginning, I was advised that the pod parent had a greater influence on the children in regards to branching, etc..?I try to use the taller of the two as pod parent.?It's not always possible.? 

Betty W.? 
Bridge In Time
Zone 6

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <747mann@gmail.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 7:20 am
Subject: [iris] re: HYB: pod vs pollen traits (very long) (was ??)

(test to see if messages are getting to the archives yet & if this
gmail subscription is working)

This started as another subject line, but I didn't see the post so
don't know what it was....

Thanks Colleen - it didn't make it to the archives, which is where I
and a lot of others read.  The last message I was able to get out via
lock-net didn't show up either. And I don't see anything in the
archives in reply to your post.

I sent a note to Chris Lindsey and John J  the other day - no response so far...

Only thing I'd comment on is that overall plant vigor seems to be a
crap shoot as far as <both> parents are concerned.  So many factors
affecting plant growth, disease resistance, carbon allocation in
general, I guess that's no surprise.

IMM as pod parent has given a lot of seedlings with excellent
health/vigor, but those are the survivors!  Some crosses barely any
seeds germinate, others have high germination and few survivors.  Some
pollen donors to the IMM crosses have been so poor in my growing
conditions, I can barely keep them alive long enough to give pollen,
but have produced strong seedlings and vice versa.

The only clue I've found to guessing whether or not a weak but fertile
performer here will give strong seedlings is by looking at the
pedigree to see if there is anything in there that has clung to life
here for more than one year out in the "garden" and, for older ones,
seeing what's been
registered from it.  If I see that a cultivar (or parents) have been
used a lot in different climates, then I figure <maybe> it will give
strong seedlings here.

As for branching - not as much experience there - IMM does give fairly
good branching to children as pod parent, no experience with her as
pollen parent.  I have grown a lot of seedlings from PINK FORMAL both
ways - I'll have to pay closer attention this bloom season, but my
impression is that she passes along her poor branching and tall skinny
stalks when used as pod parent more often than when used as pollen.
But I'm not sure.

Stalk height seems to 
come from either side - short seems to be full
recessive. But I can't be sure about stalk height here because
everything is consistently  shorter than registered, & some cultivars
are erratic in height depending on weather.

I'd be interested in hearing if anybody has gotten noticeably taller
seedlings from two short parents - i.e., distinctly tall from two
border bearded in good growing conditions.  I've gotten some seedlings
that have been taller than both parents, but only because they've had
better root systems & were stronger plants than the parents.  I think. ;-)

As for color - too few reverse crosses and too few seedlings to have
noticed anything.  I have seen (tho not huge numbers, so maybe not
statistically significant) differences in color depending on how many
winters/how long a period chilling seeds require to germinate (i.e.,
pinks seem to need the least).  And I <think> I've seen some tendency
for pod parent and <maybe> even weather during bloom/pod development
to affect seed chilling requirements.

Too few surviving seedlings from most crosses here to really say much
of anything for sure.

I wish people would use CULT in the subject line for iris culture and
not for other things!

Thanks Colleen.

> I posted a general email in iris talk yesterday, but have had very
> little response, did you not get it? here it is.
> This year I had a lot of new crosses flower and I've also been better
> able to assess the last few years crosses. And I'm finding some notable
> differences between pod and pollen use.
> For eg I've done reciprocal crosses on Brides Blush and Silver City
> several time. When Silver City is the pod parent the seedling show a lot
> more lavender and lace, but also don't show the strong branching that
> seedlings show when Bride's Blush is the pod parent.
> Firebeard seedlings show it's tall thin stems more when used as a pod
> parent but not when used as a pollen parent.
> Regarding form, I've used both Sneezy and Momentous Occasion as form
> wideners and this seems to work both
 as pod or pollen, similarly they
> both seem shorten the seedling stem height but probably more so when
> used as pod parents. Great for breeding border beardeds.
> Basically it would seem that stem/branching and colour (maybe mostly
> relating to dominant whites) are more pod related than pollen related,
> however rebloom seems unrelated to whether I use pod or pollen. Foliage
> colour and plant vigor seems unrelated also.
> I'd appreciate everyones else's comments also.
> Colleen Modra
> Adelaide Hills
> South Australia
> www.impressiveirises.com.au

Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>
Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee <http://www.aisregion7.org>
American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>

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