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Re: Re: HYB:Traits:parents


<<Enjoying the discussion, Tom >>




Tom, 

I've this theory that when we discuss these things we all benefit.? The idea IS to further the advancement of the iris, and have fun doing it!? 

Of course, my personal focus is in the TB rebloomers, but even then I'm still "scattered!"? I don't know how much of what works for me will translate to the diploid experience.? 

Always nice to read about your rebloom experiences.? 

As to what is going on?? 

1)? From my experience, I'd say?the genes have to be carried in the linage of both sides.? Not necessarily expressed.? Theoretically, the child of a Non x Rebloom should "carry" the potential to produce rebloomers.? 
2)? there?appears to be a random factor as to how these rebloom genes line up!? 
3)? If the above is not true, I'm wasting a lot of time and space!

I'm in a "build a rebloomer" mode these days.? Last year, in late May, I planted a dozen or so of several crosses.??Many should bloom this spring. It's been speculated, by some,?that Matrix carries a key to rebloom.? I've crossed Matrix to a couple of dark seedlings (mahogany & deep purple) to see what?colors it will pass,?or allow to pass.??Will it breed taller?? What will it give when crossed to non plicata?? Will it give smooth or rough selfs?? 

George Sutton stated in the recent Recorder that Matrix can give as much as 80% rebloomers in their zone 9 gardens.? He doesn't state what has to be crossed with Matrix to get that type of percentage, but it would have to be something that also has strong rebloom traits.? 

I also have a couple of interesting crosses with Again & Again.? Things to bloom from Clarence, Total Recall, Catalina, Lunar Whitewash, and loads more.? Looking forward to 3 years of seedlings in bloom.? (freeze and all)? 

A few experiments with my Summer Radiance!? Mainly first generation experiments since I don't expect rebloom to be strong in most of these, looking to improve form.? SR has been a great breeder.? Lots of questions!

One batch of seedlings, 1810, contains Immortality, Latest Style, Feed Back, Champagne Elegance, & Light Rebuff along with several rebloom carriers.? It's produced?about 50% rebloomers here in my zone 6 garden.? This spring I hope to add more into that mix.? Not enough time, not enough space!? 

Takes a lot of seedlings.? 

Is it spring yet?? <very big grin>? Time for more experiments!? 

Betty Wilkerson/south central KY/zone 6/Only those who dare to dream can make a dream come true!? 


-----Original Message-----
From: thomas silvers <tesilvers@yahoo.com>
To: iris-talk <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 7:35 am
Subject: [iris] Re: HYB:Traits:parents



I can also appreciate that advice [to use a good new
seedling with EVERYTHING!]. And since we're also on
the topic of rebloom, I'll re-mention my most recent 
seedling patch surprise [I've already posted about
these seedlings during the past two seasons].

I've used my 24 chromosome bearded species-cross named
CLOWN PANTS (Iris variegata X suaveolens var. mellita)
to cross with just about any other diploid (24
chromosome) beardeds I have. None of these other
parents has ever rebloomed for me; and only half of
the years does CLOWN PANTS send up a few repeat stalks
a couple of weeks after the main flush. So as you'd
expect, all of the seedlings I've been getting have
been once-bloomers, except for...
one cross, using a clone of Iris cengialtii (very
similar to pallida). Four seedlings from this
particular cross, have rebloomed in 2007 and again in
2008. They've got a long way to go in the looks
department, but I still think they're my best
hybridizing surprise so far.

So I'd definitely be a fan of the shotgun approach --
cross with as many [widely] different parents as you
possibly can. You never know which is gonna be that
special combination.

And maybe I can add some pieces to your rebloom theory
puzzle, with my diploid dabblings. Here's the
background of those diploid reblooming seedlings.
1) Iris cengialtii - I've never heard of it reblooming
anywhere.
2) CLOWN PANTS - like I mentioned, sends up a few
repeat stalks (a few weeks after the main flush) about
every other year for me. Two other people have
mentioned that it has done that for them also.
3) Iris variegata - the pod parent of CLOWN PANTS was
a clone (named Beardsley) that is supposed to rebloom
somewhere. It never did for me. But I recall Chuck
Chapman saying that many Iris variegata clones rebloom
regularly for him up there in Canada.
4) Iris suaveolens var. mellita - the pollen parent of
CLOWN PANTS, as far as I know, this little dwarf isn't
known for rebloom either -- it certainly didn't
rebloom for me!

If it's any help, Iris suaveolens blooms VERY early
(and only about 4 or 5 inches tall) and Iris variegata
is one of the last beardeds to bloom here. I actually
had to refrigerate the pollen of suaveolens to be able
to use it months later on variegata.

Oh and another piece of information... none of the
other pallida X CLOWN PANTS crosses have given me any
rebloomers yet.

So... any ideas about what's going on here?

Enjoying the discussion, Tom 

-----------------------------------------------

<<Betty wrote:>>

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just look at an iris
and know which of it's traits it will pass along,
without having to make crosses to find out?? Even
after crosses you still don't have the full picture,
since it might?pass (genes) differently with different
partners! 

I'm really appreciating Barry Blyth's advice (from
somewhere) to use a good new seedling with EVERYTHING!

You never know what traits are hidden in the gene
pile!? 

Anyone have any surprises you'd like to share, from
the seedling patch?? 

<<and in an earlier e-mail>>

I like to get people talking about the different
theories of rebloom breeding about this time each
spring.




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