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Re: HYB: ploidy - speculation

  • Subject: Re: HYB: ploidy - speculation
  • From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
  • Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 06:43:19 -0500

Walter Moores in Mississippi USA asked:

<When you cross a dip with a tet, how can you tell what the offspring
are?
 The seedlings that die early - how do we know they are dip or tet?  I
guess it depends on the stage of their growth before death and whether
chromosome counts were done.  I mention this because I have read the
phrase 'tetraploid seedlings' from colchicine experiments when the
seedlings, in fact, died.  I think they might have been  labeled tet too
soon - before they were tested or were of any size to speculate about
their ploidy.

Can bearded tets from dip x tet crosses also be spotted by sight, or
must a count be done?

But, then, I think of some West Coast bearded irises with skimpy,
narrow foliage from inbreeding lines of tet x tet.  So, how can you
tell?

Will the variegated foliage breeders be able to tell dip from tet
seedlings on sight before tests and bloom?  Will the bloom tell?>

Walter, my limited experience with diploid versus tetraploid bearded
irises is that some of the species differ in appearance of foliage more
than foliage differences between ploidy level.

For example, the I. pallida that is widely grown here has foliage every
bit as robust as the most robust modern TB and is basically
indistinguishable.  Bloom stalks are thinner (smaller diameter) than
modern TBs, but not much thinner than many older tetraploid TBs.  The
size of individual blossoms is much smaller than recent (non-'historic')
modern TBs, but I don't know how bloom size would compare with older
tetraploids.  I don't grow enough to compare, or at least I can't
visualize any comparisons at the moment.  Then again, due to the
relatively high success rate I've had with the local pallida compared to
what folks say about making dip/tet crosses, I have to wonder if this is
really a dip.

I germanica (presumably a triploid, maybe) locally grown here is also
indistinguishable in foliage from modern TBs.

Seems like I. kashmiriana is supposed to be tet?  It is small statured,
short, thin leaf blades, small wiry stalks.  Soo.....

<I have almost as many questions as Linda!   :-)>

If so, you've got to get used to not getting any answers most of the
time <G>  Or at least not right away.  Some of my questions here have
been answered after a few years have gone by....not directly, but
discussions go around again.

Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8





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