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Re: RE: Translingual Registrations


Before I get myself in trouble with the registrar, let
me say it is a huge relatively thankless job that gets
more criticism than praise and he should be commended.
I have tried for sometime to try to create
alternatives that could satisfy the gathering of
additional in formation yet not substantially increase
the workload of the registrar.

Loic maybe unaware that we already have assistant
registrars in several countries. Obviously we may need
more as different languages come in to play. Since the
International cultivated code is crafted by a
worldwide congress of horticulturalists I am certain
there are rules, guidelines and consul as to the best
way of dealing with these challenges.

At the moment it seems the least we could do is try to
offer translations in the unofficial checklists. As
Loic understands this is often no easy task. I will be
working on the Median checklist the next few months.
If someone could get translations on many of the
recent Russian, Polish, etc. names I would be
delighted to include them. Perhaps we should offer
explanations for some of the play on words in English
names as a courtesy to other languages.

Historically it has been difficult to get everyone to
register names. Despite the fact that it causes all
sorts of problems with trade, too many still get
circulated without proper registration. Whatever is
done must be simple enough to encourage registration.

--- loic tasquier <tasquierloic@cs.com> wrote:

> Yes, it's going to become a very tough job indeed!
> 
> Unless the AIS progressively evolves towards
> something more international , 
> or delegates some tasks that need international
> expertise to a team of 
> people coming from different iris societies from all
> over the world.
> Big projects have always started labeled as Utopia.
> But when necessity revails , then there's no utopia
> involved, it's basic 
> common sense, and it's called Evolution.
> 
> For the moment, the issues are not impossible to
> face, but after reading 
> Clarence Mahan's letter, one realises these issues
> are going to get more and 
> more complex and we'll have to find new tools to
> solve these kinds of 
> delicate problems.
> 
> Loic
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <CEMahan@aol.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] RE: Translingual Registrations
> 
> 
> > In a message dated 1/22/2007 5:53:07 A.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, 
> > jukp@aha.ru
> > writes:
> >
> > The main  problem of translingual registrations is
> transliteration. The 
> > names
> > given  in another alphabets should be
> transliterated but really didn't. 
> > The
> > records in checklist are not transliterations nor
> transcriptions but  not
> > more than a fantasy of Mr. Loktev who do  it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I applaud Juri for his thoughtful and important
> comments. No where is the
> > problem of transliteration more apparent than with
> Japanese names. Over 
> > the
> > years the names of Japanese irises in the Check
> Lists have been romanized 
> > using
> > different transliteration systems, one of which is
> now archaic and at 
> > least
> > two  of which are based on Japanese phonology not
> English phonology. Then 
> > again,
> > some  of the translations of Japanese names in the
> Check Lists are also
> > erroneous.
> >
> > One example of both the transliteration and
> translation problems is the 
> > iris
> > 'Manazuru.' It is in the 1939 Alphabetical Iris
> Check List as 
> > 'Manadzuru.'
> > (There is no "d" sound in Japanese but the "d" was
> used in an  older, now 
> > archa
> > ic transliteration system for a stressed "t") All
> of the  commonly used
> > transliteration systems today would render this
> name 'Manazuru'  but the 
> > iris
> > continues in commerce in the West as 'Manadzuru.' 
> Somewhat  amusingly, 
> > the Check
> > List gives the translation of this name as "White 
> Naked Crane."  The 
> > correct
> > translation is "White-necked Crane." I have  never
> seen crane that was not
> > naked, but it does bring to mind a crane with 
> white skin that has lost 
> > its
> > feathers.) I stress that this is one
> example--there  are many, many more 
> > that I
> > could cite.
> >
> > Another problem with Japanese name transliteration
> in the past was that 
> > the
> > commonly used Hepburn transliteration system uses
> macrons over long 
> > vowels,
> > but  the Check Lists have never used the macrons.
> The macron is especially
> > important  with the long "o" sound, which in
> Japanese is a longer sound 
> > than in
> > English.  Japanese hybridizers today are using a
> totally different
> > transliteration system  that places a "u" after an
> "o" that is long. For 
> > native English
> > speakers who are  not aware of this practice, it
> will highly improbable 
> > that the
> > name will be  pronounced anything near the
> Japanese pronunciation.
> >
> > (The problem of the macron is apparent in chapter
> 4 of my book. The book
> > editors, following standard style guides, insisted
> on replacing the 
> > macron in
> > transliterated Japanese names with the circumflex.
> My  objections were to 
> > no
> > avail and I decided it was not an issue on which I
>  cared to fall on my 
> > sword.)
> >
> > If (when) the Chinese start registering irises, I
> shutter at the
> > transliteration problems. The most commonly used
> system for 
> > transliterating  Chinese name
> > today (the pinyin system) is the official Chinese
> government  system. If 
> > you
> > do not understand the rules you will never be able
> to  pronounce the name.
> > Would you pronounce an "x" as "sh" or a "g" as
> "k",  etc. etc.?
> >
> > Thanks to Juri for his most thoughtful and useful
> comments. Pity the poor
> > Registrar! Clarence
> >
> >
>
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> > message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
> 
>
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