RE: Re: HYB: rebloom genetics
- Subject: RE: Re: HYB: rebloom genetics
- From: "Steve Szabo" <email@example.com>
- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 03:22:15 -0500
So far, that is what I have gotten; female blacks appear to be sterile. This
would make it difficult for a male to have two of the black genes. I'd say
not impossible, but very difficult. It would seem that there is more than
one gene determining black in bettas (and probably other colors). I have had
reports that one will get a smallish number of blacks, a number of colors
with black mixed in, and a smallish number of other colors.
This is from a list where I need to take answers with a grain of salt, so to
speak. I've not yet gotten an answer from the list whose members I trust
Were you a member of the IBC during that time? Did you have an interest in
the wild bettas? I helped write the booklet the IBC eventually published
about the known wild species at that time.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 12:58 PM
Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: rebloom genetics
Thanksfor the input Steve.
With Bettas? there is a seperate enhanced? gene for black (differerent then
normal melanin gene), which results in the "Black"? phenotype, seperate
regular melanin black gene.
The female black phenotype are? sterile. So you need to breed a black male
a? steel blue carrier to get black? children.
The ratio of? black offspring is such? to suggest? that?? males have a
dosage of this black gene to make them black, and that? the double dosage
males? die as eggs.? Not sure if this last fact (double dosage males dying
vitro) has ever been proven. But black phenotype is somehow sex gene linked.
I did breed Bettas for a number of years and was World champion in 1980.
other "fishy" awards as well. Haven't been seriously involved with aquarium
fish for some time.
There are a number of? homozygous fatal? genes in? animals, humans and in
plants. For humans, there is? a certain dwarf gene, that? reduces cartilage,
resulting in dwarfs in single dosage and in two dosages, is fatal in vitro.
In plants there are a number of differerent fatal genes, but all the
I could find were? rather esoteric, no good examples for presenting here.
From: Steve Szabo <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Thu, Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Subject: RE: [iris] Re: HYB: rebloom genetics
Black fish. I'd need to look at the betta blacks for more information, but
other species who produce blacks tend to be shorter lived than their more
colorful siblings or cousins (black can and does breed true). Black fish
need a diet that is higher in protein than their more colorful relatives of
the same species. Depending on their natural diet, this can be hard to
supply, if you even know the need for it.
Black fish also tend to get cancer at a much higher frequency than one would
expect, based on knowledge of the species involved to produce the black;
sometimes one species sometimes two or more were originally used. For
example, one variety of black molly had three species involved to develop
the rich black that it has.
Black fish also have a tendency to a higher rate of fish tuberculosis.
Black fish also tend to need higher temperatures than their relatives to do
well, though many seem to lack the vigor of their cousins of the same
species to one degree or another.
So, there you have it, more than you wanted to know about black fish.
There is one important fact you need to keep in mind about genetics that I
learned from Neil Morgensen before he wandered off to tend that iris bed in
the sky. It is very difficult to take lessons learned in animal genetics and
apply them to iris genetics and it is the same going the other way. We did
have some long discussions about this on and offlist.
From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Linda
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 10:05 AM
Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: rebloom genetics
Can you think of any instances where a dominant gene in multiple doses
has some kind of amplifying effect? In other words where it has the
opposite effect of being lethal? I guess it wouldn't be considered a
true dominant in that case.
Any thoughts on the chemistry of what's going on when the cycle gene is
off? Is any of that chemistry reversible, or could it be speeded up by
an extra gene set? Ok, this is getting way off the track - sorry.
It's just frustrating trying to interpret results since rebloom here is
so dependent on year to year seasonal weather variations as well as
general climate, so that even "dominant" genes can't be seen half the
time (or more, or less). Seems like a plant should have a hard time
figuring out how to grow at all with four sets of genes that don't agree
with each other. ;-)
Interesting example about the fish - does the color gene cause death or
is it another gene linked with it?
<I don't know of any situation of where a dominant gene is no longer
functioning when it is in multiple dosages, unless it is a lethal gene in
multiple dosages. Those exist, and the plant or animal just dies. One
of this is black Siamese fighting fish. Males with two dosages of black gene
Perhaps someone else knows of a situation where a dominant gene is
in multiple dosages, but I can't think of any off hand.>
Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7
getting a little cabin fever crazy!
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