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Re: iris DIGEST V1 #391


Neil, Dave , Jeff and others,

Thank you so much for your imput about my "Grandmother's irises". I know there were statements about how difficult it is to id an iris from a picture. I am certain;y NOT trying to do that. I am merely trying to come close to an id so that I can study the type of irises that my grandmother had in her garden of hundreds of iris. She knew the names of them, but never had them marked. Sadly, the only ones that are left are the few that I now have in my garden.
My id's are merely for my information, never to sell or pass them on to someone else.
Thank you though for you time and patience and passing on of knowledge to us newbies in the iris world.
Sincerely,
Lynn Stucker
----- Original Message ----- From: "iris DIGEST" <iris-owner@hort.net>
To: <iris-digest@hort.net>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: [iris] iris DIGEST V1 #391



iris DIGEST Friday, June 17 2005 Volume 01 : Number 391



In this issue:

Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity
Re: [iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?
[iris] REBlack Andromeda
Re: [iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?
Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity
[iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?
Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:48:51 -0500
From: Sandra Barss <barsssa@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity

Hi

I do that all the time, however, I can sometimes find a list of things I
have purchased and sometimes
I can remember bits of names, so pinning a name on an unknown isn't
necessarily all that random as
it may seem.

I really don't see the harm in attaching a name. I would have to guess
the majority of the growers of
irises are casual growers and are probably more concerned with the looks
and the garden performance
of a cultivar rather than it's precise pedigree.

Sandra

Neil A Mogensen wrote:


I cringe when I see someone "identify" a NOID from seeing some on-line
photos and pouncing with great certainty on a possible match..

Repeatedly several writers have pleaded with people not to be hasty in
pinning names on unknowns. Get a rhizome from a reliable source and grow it
side by side with the NOID--but even then it may take a sharp eye to say for
sure the unknown does or does not match the comparison plant. Everytime a
name is pinned on an unknown incorrectly it "contaminates the field" since
these mislabeled plants have a tendency to travel far from home, carrying
the misidentification with them.

But then--the logic of buying a piece of something one already "has" is a
bit strange. Why not just compost the unknown and stay with the newly
purchased item? It is easy to understand why the casual grower ignores the
plea.

Neil Mogensen z 7 Reg 4 western NC mountains
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:39:57 -0600
From: DFerguson@cabq.gov
Subject: Re: [iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?

As for 'Dauntless', I have found lots of pictures on line at places such
as the HIPS web site (I think), and at various nursery's web sites, etc.
More likely and very similar is 'Indian Chief', which is a very very very
common and strong growing Iris. The colors of the two are similar, but a
close look at the stripes near the beard will separate them.

By "orange beards" what sort of orange do you mean. It is an orangey
yellow, or a rich red-orange, or somewhere in between. 'Dauntless' and
'Indian Chief' have an orange tinge to the beards, but I tend to think of
them as more on the yellow side (I don't have a flower open, nor a photo
to look at the moment though).

I don't have time to dig for links to pictures right now, but if you don't
get lots of leads here, I might be able to help some later.

There are lots of old yellows, but few of the really old ones (your
description sounds like perhaps a very old or old fashioned flower) are
rich bright yellow.

In all cases, you will probably get more definitive answers (maybe that
should be possibly) if you can post photos of the flower to one of the
photo oriented chat groups such as the Iris Photos group.

Good luck,

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:37:05 -0400
From: irischapman@netscape.net
Subject: [iris] REBlack Andromeda

Here is my photo of Black Andromeda

Chuck Chapman

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[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of blackAndromeda.jpg]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeffrey Walters <jeffwiris@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?

Lynn and Dave,

DAUNTLESS, INDIAN CHIEF, AND OLA KALA are in bloom in my garden right now (though with the temperatures warming up really fast they will not be so for much longer).

DAUNTLESS and INDIAN CHIEF are similar to each other, but are easily distinguished when compared side by side. The falls on both are a near match for each other, but the standards of IC are much paler, almost an ashy old rose compared to the slightly grayed vinous red-purple of D's standards. The beards of both are orangy-yellow, but that of IC are more intense than those of D. D's beards could be described as deep yellow by some, but you cannot avoid mentioning orange when trying to characterize the appearance of IC's beards.

As for OLA KALA, the measurements of fully expanded blooms is as follows: Standards are 2" wide and 2.75" long; Falls are 1.75" wide and 3" long; the whole flower is 5" long from top of standards to bottom of falls and 4" wide between the tips of adjacent falls. I do not think you could describe OLA KALA as having a particularly "long" flower for a historic iris.




Jeff Walters
in northern Utah
(USDA Zone 4)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:19:56 -0400
From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity

Sandra, my remarks about "pouncing" don't refer to careful and knowledgeable
gardeners and iris growers such as yourself. You are far less likely to pin
an incorrect name on something you have that has gotten separated from its
label than the type of "casual" gardener I meant. You have a pretty
sophisticated knowledge of what is what, and what you may or may not have
gotten. The unknown is identified to be something you have good reason to
attach the name to and are highly unlikely to pin just any old name on
something.

Seeing the photo on line as I described is more on the order of a jog to
your memory than the type of event I intended to decry. My concern is with
those who know little but enthusiastically trade around or dig something up
in "Grandma's old iris bed" on which names get attached that don't belong.
When put into circulation the incorrectly IDed item is a serious problem.
If it turns out to be accurate identification it is more likely so by
accident than it is by rightly-done ID'ing.

The problem reminds me of some visitors I used to get several times a year.
One points to a brand new introduction and announces that "I've had that one
several years. It's one of my favorites."

I don't say a word. But I have been known rather often to stick the spading
fork under some surplus item or two of recent varieties and CLEARLY label
the name and send it home with the person. I figured I was contributing to
their education--if that were possible. Some never seem to learn, then the
happy surprise comes around and we end up with a new AIS member. Those are
a delight.

I also usually answer honest questions with perhaps a little humor, but
considerable care to give my answer at the level the questioner is likely to
absorb and use. Occasionally the effort is fruitful.

In Idaho I got a lot of garden visitors, some quite knowledgeable, some rank
beginners, who were sometimes fruitful fodder for efforts to "hook" on
irises.

Where I'm located now I'm not getting any visitors at all except for a
couple friends (who've had their heads and hands filled with iris as thanks
for help in spraying, digging and the like), occasional deer, rabbits and
frequent invasions by moles. I must admit I miss the coyotes. Their
serenades are something I haven't had a chance to enjoy for a long, long
time.

One visit from Linda Mann and one of her friends was a lot of fun. They
went home with a trunk load of things just to help me clear some space.

Neil Mogensen z 7 Reg 4 western NC mountains

SpaceAgeRobin Home Page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpaceAgeRobin/
The Robin's archive is at http://www.hort.net/lists/spaceagerobin/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:31:49 -0400
From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
Subject: [iris] TB:Hist: Dauntless?

Lynn, the rosy magenta one might be more difficult to ID than the yellow as
quite a number of very similar varieties were introduced over the span of a
couple decades..

Of that vintage suggested by what you describe, there are relatively few
clear, clean yellows, especially selfs without white flashes or bitone
effects. That is one of the reasons OLA KALA created the sensation it did,
as well as its awesome saturation of the yellow-gold color.

Most yellows were far from clear hue, rarely selfs and often marked by quite
noisy hafts, sometimes virus flecking (from their W. R. Dykes heritage) and
a host of flaws of form, branching and the like.

The HIPS "Quick Fix" photos should be of some help, I would think, and the
historical offerings of Argyle, Superstition and the like have numerous
others besides those in the HIPS photo list.

I dream of a time when we have an encylopedic photo library of varieties
with good, sharp and accurate color rendition of both contemporary as well
as much-circulated historics. What a help that would be--but what a
monumental task to create!

Best wishes on your search!

Neil Mogensen z 7 Reg 4 western NC mountains

SpaceAgeRobin Home Page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpaceAgeRobin/
The Robin's archive is at http://www.hort.net/lists/spaceagerobin/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:28:59 EDT
From: Cseggen1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB:Product Identity

In a message dated 6/17/2005 4:18:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
neilm@charter.net writes:
Sandra, my remarks about "pouncing" don't refer to careful and knowledgeable
gardeners and iris growers such as yourself. You are far less likely to pin
an incorrect name on something you have that has gotten separated from its
label than the type of "casual" gardener I meant. You have a pretty
sophisticated knowledge of what is what, and what you may or may not have
gotten. The unknown is identified to be something you have good reason to
attach the name to and are highly unlikely to pin just any old name on
something.

Seeing the photo on line as I described is more on the order of a jog to
your memory than the type of event I intended to decry. My concern is with
those who know little but enthusiastically trade around or dig something up
in "Grandma's old iris bed" on which names get attached that don't belong.
When put into circulation the incorrectly IDed item is a serious problem.
If it turns out to be accurate identification it is more likely so by
accident than it is by rightly-done ID'ing.

The problem reminds me of some visitors I used to get several times a year.
One points to a brand new introduction and announces that "I've had that one
several years. It's one of my favorites."

I don't say a word. But I have been known rather often to stick the spading
fork under some surplus item or two of recent varieties and CLEARLY label
the name and send it home with the person. I figured I was contributing to
their education--if that were possible. Some never seem to learn, then the
happy surprise comes around and we end up with a new AIS member. Those are
a delight.

I also usually answer honest questions with perhaps a little humor, but
considerable care to give my answer at the level the questioner is likely to
absorb and use. Occasionally the effort is fruitful.

In Idaho I got a lot of garden visitors, some quite knowledgeable, some rank
beginners, who were sometimes fruitful fodder for efforts to "hook" on
irises.

Where I'm located now I'm not getting any visitors at all except for a
couple friends (who've had their heads and hands filled with iris as thanks
for help in spraying, digging and the like), occasional deer, rabbits and
frequent invasions by moles. I must admit I miss the coyotes. Their
serenades are something I haven't had a chance to enjoy for a long, long
time.

One visit from Linda Mann and one of her friends was a lot of fun. They
went home with a trunk load of things just to help me clear some space.

Neil Mogensen z 7 Reg 4 western NC mountains
And Neil, what are the driving directions to your place??<vbg>



Connie Eggen
Zone 5
Warsaw MO

------------------------------

End of iris DIGEST V1 #391
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