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Re: HYB: germination data-terms

  • Subject: Re: HYB: germination data-terms
  • From: greenthumbs <greenthumbs777@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:24:08 -0700 (PDT)

   I think I can see where Christian is coming from. I hope y'all don't get tired of my poultry talk, but I see so many similarities and don't know how else to say this. On one hand you have fertility (embryo formation) and on the other hand there's hatchability (embryo viability).

   In the burito, the higher germination rate that some folks have reported, may potentially just be fertility where an embryo starts to develop, but is not strong enough to come to term and fully form. While in the ground you don't see the ones just resulting from fertility and yet lack viability. All you see in the ground is the finished product; those that are completely viable.

   When I set 40 eggs in the incubator and I candle them (backlight the egg to view the embryo) at one week, I may have 99% fertility. That doesn't mean that 99% will hatch. I may only end up with only an 80% hatch (germination, if you will) rate. In other words, you can't judge the process based on half of the necessary events.

   To compare apples to apples, we would have to know the survival rate through the first winter of seedlings produced by both methods. I think, right?


David

















--- On Mon, 6/22/09, Anita Moran <avmoran1@earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Anita Moran <avmoran1@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: germination data-terms
> To: iris@hort.net
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:41 AM
> Christian
> 
> I am going to have to disagree with you as well. A seed
> that has produces a root sprout and fails is the same as an
> egg that fails to hatch, it is still a failure and these
> should not be included in a count.  In fact the
> Diffinition of Germinations is:
> 
> "Germination is the growth of an embryonic plant contained
> within a seed; which results in the formation of the
> seedling."
> 
> So if only a root is produced it is technically a failed
> germination since it did not result in a seedling.
> 
> Good thinking though
> :)
> Anita 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: christian foster <flatnflashy@yahoo.com>
> >Sent: Jun 21, 2009 2:33 PM
> >To: iris@hort.net
> >Subject: [iris] HYB: germination data-terms
> >
> >I've been following the recent thread about germination
> processes.  This year is no different from any other
> year I can remember. 
> >
> >I feel I must stamp my foot and scowl for a
> moment.  We are not being specific with our
> terminology, and as a result some of the data that is being
> offered is corrupted.
> >
> >A few stalwart souls who are planting their seeds
> directly outside are reporting "germination" rates, but this
> is inaccurate.  If the germination rate is being
> calculated based upon the number of green seedlings detected
> at the soil surface this is not technically a germination
> rate.  Rather this is the number of seedlings which
> both germinated AND survived to that level of
> maturity.  
> >
> >If we are comparing that data to data on burrito
> germination, which is presumably a count of the number of
> seeds that actually produced a root sprout, then we are
> comparing apples to oranges.  Arguably, if they don't
> emerge above ground  there is no value in the seed
> >either way, but I'm only arguing that it is a different
> data set. 
> >
> >I think there is value in both sets of data.  I
> just want to note that there is a difference between a seed
> that has not germinated (yet) and a seed that germinated but
> failed before the plant was detected above ground.
> >
> >christian
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net
> with the
> >message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS
> >
> 
> 
> Anita Moran
> Pilmore Gardens
> USDA 6B
> Maryland
> AIS, ASI, FSKIS
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> with the
> message text UNSUBSCRIBE IRIS

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