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Re: HYB: 'Orange Avatar' and carotenoid plicatas

I agree with most of what you say here Paul.

There are times when cartenoid andanthocyanin pigments are both 
controlled by the plicata genes. ther are also times when only 
anthocyanin is controlled. In these cases you have the red dotting on a 
yellow ground. In the situation where both are controlled you have red 
on white ground. Many violet on white do have both carenoid and 
anthocyanin  in the dots. (microscope evidence andpigment extraction)

We also have to be aware that there are other pattern pigment 
distribution controls other then plicata. Haft lines for instence.  
(For those who think haft lines = plicata, I have to say, it anin't so. 
Often haft lines are tolerated on plicata as it doesn't clash with 
plicata patterning, but it is inherited seperatly. You can have 
plicatas without haft lines, and haft lines in plants that don't 
produce plicatas when crossed with plicatas)

The thing with Orange Atavar is that it has  this pattern only on rim 
of falls, standards are solid. It would seem to be a joyce Terry 
pattern of  cartenoid distribution with the addition of  dotting in 
fall rims.  The lack of  same paattern in standards makes me wonder. 
Test crosses would let us know more preceisely what is happening. Fred 
has seemed to have done these test crosses. Fred, could you let us know 
what you crossed Orange Atavar to, and what the results were?

I have introduced a couple of these cartenoid plicatas, Tan Lines and 
Paadigm shift.

Chuck Chapman

Re: HYB: 'Orange Avatar' and carotenoid plicatas,

Paul Archer

However, you can be certain that there is some connection.  The dotting 
patterns coinincide in the same pinpoint space as the anthocyanins on 
the petal surface to create a red, brown or purple dot.  Not in such a 
way that the carotenoid dots and anthocyanin dots are separated, at 
least not in any I have seen.  They blen to form one dot so I think it 
would be safe to say contoled by the same gene.  I have been working 
toward improved carotenoid plicatas for a few years.  'Orange Avatar' 
is not the first orange plic to be introduced.  'Orange Plume'  is the 
earliest that I know of but I don't grow it because it is not frost 
hardy and rots.  I have yellow orange and lycopene pink plicatas of my 
own breeding that I am working with.

I did also have orange plicatas appear "spontaneously" from solid 
orange parents.  'Good Show' and 'Orange Popsicle' seems to carry the 
trait and 'Beverly Sills' does as well since it produced 'Light Beam'.  
Some others that may not be so obvious because of the anthocyanins 
masking the carotenoid visually are 'Chicasaw Sue' (also lycopene 
recessive) and 'Broadway and 'Hucklyberry Fudge'.

Another not so obvious would be 'Tiger Honey' because of the theory (or 
fact depending on the current understanding of broken-color flowers) 
that at least three plicata genes are need for the color-breaking gene 
to express itself.  "Beverly Sills' is also one of its parents.  There 
you have it... a connection.

The trick is to look for carotenoid dotting patterns around the hafts 
right near the beards and on the standards, inside AS WELL AS outside.  
In contrast 'Joyce Terry' and 'Brown Lasso' have no dotting and the 
standards are solid yellow.  Also look for gradual shadings of 
carotenoid form the edges toward a white center or dotted centerlines 
of carotenoid on the falls.

Carotenoid plicatas are not restricted to the tetraploid TB's either.  
Notably they occur in the diploids like the more recent 'Snickerdoodle' 
and other classes as well.  So they probably did not "spontaneously" 
occur like some of the othe more recent patterns in TB's lately.  It is 
simply a matter of reducing the amount of anthocyanin to visually clean 
up the flower color and make the carotenoids visible on their own.

Paul Archer
Raleigh, NC Zone 8

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of ParadigmShift.jpg]

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