Re: HYB: 'Orange Avatar' and carotenoid plicatas
I agree with most of what you say here Paul.
There are times when cartenoid andanthocyanin pigments are both
controlled by the plicata genes. ther are also times when only
anthocyanin is controlled. In these cases you have the red dotting on a
yellow ground. In the situation where both are controlled you have red
on white ground. Many violet on white do have both carenoid and
anthocyanin in the dots. (microscope evidence andpigment extraction)
We also have to be aware that there are other pattern pigment
distribution controls other then plicata. Haft lines for instence.
(For those who think haft lines = plicata, I have to say, it anin't so.
Often haft lines are tolerated on plicata as it doesn't clash with
plicata patterning, but it is inherited seperatly. You can have
plicatas without haft lines, and haft lines in plants that don't
produce plicatas when crossed with plicatas)
The thing with Orange Atavar is that it has this pattern only on rim
of falls, standards are solid. It would seem to be a joyce Terry
pattern of cartenoid distribution with the addition of dotting in
fall rims. The lack of same paattern in standards makes me wonder.
Test crosses would let us know more preceisely what is happening. Fred
has seemed to have done these test crosses. Fred, could you let us know
what you crossed Orange Atavar to, and what the results were?
I have introduced a couple of these cartenoid plicatas, Tan Lines and
Re: HYB: 'Orange Avatar' and carotenoid plicatas,
However, you can be certain that there is some connection. The dotting
patterns coinincide in the same pinpoint space as the anthocyanins on
the petal surface to create a red, brown or purple dot. Not in such a
way that the carotenoid dots and anthocyanin dots are separated, at
least not in any I have seen. They blen to form one dot so I think it
would be safe to say contoled by the same gene. I have been working
toward improved carotenoid plicatas for a few years. 'Orange Avatar'
is not the first orange plic to be introduced. 'Orange Plume' is the
earliest that I know of but I don't grow it because it is not frost
hardy and rots. I have yellow orange and lycopene pink plicatas of my
own breeding that I am working with.
I did also have orange plicatas appear "spontaneously" from solid
orange parents. 'Good Show' and 'Orange Popsicle' seems to carry the
trait and 'Beverly Sills' does as well since it produced 'Light Beam'.
Some others that may not be so obvious because of the anthocyanins
masking the carotenoid visually are 'Chicasaw Sue' (also lycopene
recessive) and 'Broadway and 'Hucklyberry Fudge'.
Another not so obvious would be 'Tiger Honey' because of the theory (or
fact depending on the current understanding of broken-color flowers)
that at least three plicata genes are need for the color-breaking gene
to express itself. "Beverly Sills' is also one of its parents. There
you have it... a connection.
The trick is to look for carotenoid dotting patterns around the hafts
right near the beards and on the standards, inside AS WELL AS outside.
In contrast 'Joyce Terry' and 'Brown Lasso' have no dotting and the
standards are solid yellow. Also look for gradual shadings of
carotenoid form the edges toward a white center or dotted centerlines
of carotenoid on the falls.
Carotenoid plicatas are not restricted to the tetraploid TB's either.
Notably they occur in the diploids like the more recent 'Snickerdoodle'
and other classes as well. So they probably did not "spontaneously"
occur like some of the othe more recent patterns in TB's lately. It is
simply a matter of reducing the amount of anthocyanin to visually clean
up the flower color and make the carotenoids visible on their own.
Raleigh, NC Zone 8
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