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Re: HYB: genetics - line & speckle vs plic (from FB)
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: HYB: genetics - line & speckle vs plic (from FB)
  • From: Paul Archer <pharcher@mindspring.com>
  • Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:37:19 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

So what would be the genetic makeup of things from "line-and-speckle" breeding that show similar patterning but not lined-and-speckled?  The examples I'm thinking of are the cultivars 'Beacon Of Light' and 'Stir It Up'.  I'm guessing that they don't have a full complement of 4 plicata genes, but instead 2 or 3 copies, but still interact with Ae and I?  

I'll also just note there is a different term coined for "line-and-speckle" referred to as "distalata".  I'm hoping that will eventually catch on.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
>Sent: Mar 25, 2014 1:02 PM
>To: iris@hort.net
>Subject: [iris] HYB: genetics - line & speckle vs plic (from FB)
>
>I asked: <Are Wonders Never Cease & Whispering Spirits plicata pattern?> 
>after seeing their photos on the AIS blog.
>
>Chuck Chapman: For my $ all the line and speckle pattern are plicatas. 
>That is have four of the plicata alleles. It is the dosages of Ae 
>(anthrocyanin enhancement ) plus the dominant reduction of anthrocyanin 
>"I" gene in combinations that give them their unique colours. When the 
>Ae and I genes recombine in crosses with them you get a lot of iris with 
>plicata genes that have non traditional plicata patterns. such as solid 
>black that are actually plicatas. Black Lightning is a soild coloured 
>black that is a plicata, From a cross of Ruby Eruption with a solid 
>black seedling from a luminata cross.
>
>Walter Moores: When "line and speckle" first came out, the hybridizers 
>who introduced them said they weren't plicatas. Chuck, do you consider 
>everything in the Ring Around Rose family to be plics?
>
>Walter Moores: This is 'Newsworthy,' Ernst '05, and is from the Ring 
>Around Rosie family. Crossing plics to selfs will often give haft 
>markings or a spray pattern. Is this a plicata?
>Walter Moores's photo.
>
>Chuck Chapman: Yes and yes. Newsworthy would be considered a 
>plicata-luminanta type. The big kicker is the Ae gene which give 
>anthrocyanin inclusions in vacuole. These are solid lumps of 
>anthrocyanin bound by complex sugar interactions attatched to basic 
>framework of anthrocyanin molecule. Comes from several dark species, 
>notably aphylla. I published this a few years back in AIS bulletin. When 
>present in plicatas, the colour is in center of petals and not just in a 
>rim. When you add the dominant reduction of anthrocyanin gene "I" it 
>removes anthrocyanin from everywhere except the center of falls (and 
>standards in different configurations including amoena pattern). Thus 
>the two types, Newsworthy without "I" and Ring Around Rosie with "I". 
>Various combinations of glaciata and luminant with Ae and I gives all 
>the various lines and speckles patterns. Not too many people realize the 
>significance of this Ae gene and how it alters patterns. It explains a 
>lot of things that the genetic people have puzzled over.
>
>Chuck Chapman: .... Black Lighting is a black phenotype. Genetics show 
>when it has a point mutation showing plicata genotype under solid over lay.
>Chuck Chapman's photo.
>
>Chuck Chapman: Black Lightning as it normally shows in garden.
>Chuck Chapman's photo.
>
>Betty Ward Wilkerson: Chuck, am I understanding you correctly, when I 
>say that anything with plicata in the breeding, is, genetically, plicata?
>2 hrs 7 Like
>
>Chuck Chapman: If it has four (in tetraplids, 2 in diploids) of the 
>plicata alleles, pl, pl-lu or pl-gl, then it is a genetic plicata. 
>Phenotype can go from solid like Black Lightning, to near colourless 
>like Laced Cotton.
>
>Linda Mann
>
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