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Re: [iris] HYB: help - I. pallida crosses

I think Paul understands the value of pallida and its problems. Pallida is a diploid and crossing it onto the modern tetraploids would likely create a dead end. Pallida was one of the foundation species for the early diploid tall beardeds. But after the creation of the tetraploid tall beardeds its role was reduced. The genes for plicatas and pinks probably originated with pallida. Pallida generally has better foliage than the modern tall-beardeds. It is unlikely tha crosses using pallida pollen would do much more than produce sterile plants on TBs but these are often vigorous even though a dead end. The reverse cross may be more productive.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Archer" <pharcher@mindspring.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 4:25:32 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: help - I. pallida crosses

I think that is a valid question.  I am working toward that goal myself.  This may either encourage you to drop it all together or keep pushing on.  I guess it depends on your ultimate goal and how you want the seedlings to work into the TB bloodlines.  I am working on directly incorporating them into TB lines by doubling their chromosomes and making the crosses.  It is your hope to have crossed a TB onto a diploid and hope for fertility.  Have you found any fertility in the seedlings?  If they are fertile there is a lot of work and chance of success slim.  That could also require a lot of plant material (stock and seedlings both) to do so as well as sacrificing your needed space.  I'm not discouraging you in anyway as it can be accomplished.  It's a matter of the reality of the amount of time, effort and space required.  

Maybe someone would like to take them over for you?

Paul Archer
Indianapolis, IN  Zone 5

-----Original Message-----
>From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
>Sent: Oct 23, 2008 4:35 AM
>To: iris@hort.net
>Subject: [iris] HYB: help - I. pallida crosses
>With apologies for talking too much again, I need some advice, thoughts, 
>comments about my old I. pallida seedlings.
>They were taking up a lot of space that I wanted to use for the current 
>crop of seedlings, so I dug them all.  Then comments here (photos) about 
>how little the genetic diversity of bearded species is actually 
>represented in current 'bloodlines' made me wonder whether maybe I 
>should find a place to put these and try a little harder to make some 
>crosses with them.
>They are all various shades of blue, no notes on pollen parent, but they 
>are probably X CARIBBEAN DREAM.  Very late freeze/drought/deluge/dew 
>tolerant, and have pallida's willingness to keep blooming without being 
>dug and re-set.
>Near as I can tell from rummaging through TWOI, the online database, and 
>my big stack of notes from chasing down pedigrees several years back, I. 
>pallida is rarely represented in the pedigrees of modern TBs - goes back 
>to an unknown number of crosses in the 1700 & 1800s (?), a few more in 
>the early part of the last century, plus a couple I found in the 1940s 
>(Fay pallida pinks and G.P. Brown rebloomers).  All pretty diluted 
>Any thoughts on whether or not it's worth putting effort into trying to 
>use these seedlings?
>Right now, they are in a big heap out by the garden rows, waiting to be 
>Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
>East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>
>Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee <http://www.aisregion7.org>
>American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>
>talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>
>photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>
>online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>
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