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Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
  • From: Betty Gunther <63e82e8b1@rewrite.hort.net>
  • Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:51:29 -0600

     I _have_ been following this argument and have learned a lot.   I 
have had a tiny bit of rebloom here in Northern New Mexico where any 
rebloom is unusual.   It has helped me understand all the different 
thing rebloomer jcan mean.   I had been somewhat mystifyied about the 
difference among Double Your Fun, Immortality, and Plum Wine.  They all 
rebloomed a second ( and sometimes third and fourth) time.  Now I see 
that there are different genes involved and different types of rebloom.
     It doesn't bother me that you all are not in agreement.  I am 
learning a lot anyway.  Who can tell when the break thru will come? My 
experience is that nature is full of surprises!
     Keep on crossing and keep on discussing.  I am enjoying it.
Betty G.  in New Mexico
On 10/3/2014 12:32 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
> The term coastal rebloomers is not a term I use , but was responding 
> to a post using that term.
>
> Basically, if an iris is reported as  reblooming in zone 8 and 9 but 
> not regularly in cooler climates, it would be a  facilitative 
> vernalization rebloomer, depending on a long  growing season to rebloom.
>
> Good fall cyclic include  Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English 
> Cottage, Lilac Stitchery, Dorcus Lives Again and Red Revival , for 
> examples. Basically you are looking at ones that perform  in Zones 
> 4-7, after heat of summer has past.  some of these  ones such as 
> Immortality and Queen Dorothy are summer   rebloomers.
>
> This  way of looking at genetics of rebloomers is  my theory, based on 
> much time looming at all this, studying bloom trigger scientific 
> information, and  crosses made. You won't find  much on this, although 
> back issue s of Reblooming  Recorder has some of my articles.
>
> Chuck Chapman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geneva Coats <4e56e7df1@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
> Chuck, I am new to all this and since I live in California, we do have 
> a long
> blooming season. However, I live in the inland valley where it freezes at
> night for about two months every year, and the summers can approach 110
> degrees. I do not have a "coastal" climate here, nor do most people in
> California. Granted, we are not in a "Deep freeze" area like the 
> midwest or
> east coast, but there are many plants that can be grown in a true coastal
> climate that can't survive here in the inland valley where I live. I 
> suspect
> that the TN-KY area may have a climate somewhere in between the two 
> extremes
> (mu husband is from western Kentucky)
> ?
> ?
> I would be interested in knowing
> some examples of plants that are "cyclic" rebloomers as opposed to
> "facilitative vernalization" rebloomers. Do you have specific 
> cultivars that
> you have found good to work with?
> ?
> I just recently joined the Reblooming
> Iris Society. Would that sort of information be listed in the book 
> that they
> offer for sale?
> ?
> Thanks! Geneva
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To: iris
> &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 10:56 am
> Subject: Re: [iris]
> Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
>
>
> Coastal rebloomer is being used  to
> refer to the warm climate
> California rebloomers, that rebloom only in
> areas with long growing
> seasons.  I call them  "Facilitative vernalization"
> bloomers. Meaning
> that they  bloom better when they have a cold period, but
> when they
> don't, they will bloom after about 5 months of growth after  bud
> set.
> So if you don't get this long   growing season, they don't
> "rebloom".
> These genes are  useless in enabling  fall cyclic rebloom genes,
> summer
> rebloom genes or the Whenever  bloom genes..
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Griffin Crump
> &lt;70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent:
> Fri, Oct 3, 2014 1:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> Chuck  --  I haven't been following this discussion closely.  What do
> you
> mean by a "coastal" rebloomer?  --  Griff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM
> To:
> iris@hort.net
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
> Any
> examples of   rebloomers that can be attributed to crosses with
> coastal or
> occasional rebloomers?
>
> Based on what I know of genetics of rebloomers, I
> can't see any
> benefits. And possible  deficits from bring in tender  coastal
> genes.
>
> Rare events based on misfiring  of bloom genes  in response to
> rare
> growing conditions will not add anything  beneficial to gene pool
> information. It will not give any information to aid  breeding.
>
> You need
> basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics, which
> include
> plant hardiness in  many climates. Good performance in coastal
> areas doesn't
> translate into anything useful for harder climates..
>
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty Wilkerson
> &lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent: Fri,
> Oct 3, 2014 9:38 am
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> Maybe it depends on the goal?
>
>
> If your goal is to collect irises that
> will
> have a GOOD chance of reblooming in your yard, then it would be
> advisable to
> collect those that rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area.
> Learn
> from
> local gardeners. If none exist, you can learn by careful use of
> the
> checklist.
> If your goal is to improve or diversify the rebloom class,
> through
> breeding,
> perhaps you might want to venture a bit beyond the
> default rebloomers.
> ??  An
> occasional outcross to coastal rebloomers of
> stellar growth habits
> might be of
> benefit.  I work specifically with tall
> bearded irises and I'm a bit
> too old
> to begin with inter class crosses
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> &lt;&lt;Once in 20, of no
> value,
> except to be
> used as misleading information from the "Spring
> Gardens " of the
> world.
> And you can bet that they will use it.&gt;&gt;
>
>
>
>
>
> Betty
> Wilkerson
> Zone 6 KY
> autmirislvr@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman
> &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To:
> iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014
> 8:16 pm
> Subject: Re:
> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
> For those people
> who have
> iris that rebloom  regularly for them, they
> report. And then
> information
> is properly recorded.   And expectations
> of   various  rebloom
> in various
> zones  can be relied on. Once in 20
> years in zone 4 is not
> information
> that can be counted on.
>
> When you check  the "rebloom" iris
> offered by
> Spring Garden and ilk,
> you find that they have used  rebloom
> information
> from list , sometime
> along the process. When checking out some of
> their
> listing I found
> information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was
> recorded as a one
> time event, of rebloom in Australia.  No other rebloom
> reported.  This
> iris (along with many other on their list) will never
> rebloom
> in
> Canada. Some don't even make it through first year.   Many
> people by
> these collections,   both in Canada and USA.  When they don't have
> rebloom
> they then can  give up on rebloomers.  Several such  comments
> on
> "Iris
> lovers" recently are very likely from this sort of practice.
>
> So
> a "once off"
> rebloom from  one iris in one location, when reported
> as a
> reblooming iris
> can have unwanted effects.  Even if it is  once
> every
> three years , it gives
> useful information.  Once in 20, of no
> value,
> except to be used as misleading
> information from the "Spring
> Gardens " of
> the world. And you can bet that
> they will use it.
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty
> Wilkerson
> &lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent: Thu,
> Oct 2,
> 2014 4:46 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> May be a
> matter of neuances, but . . . just because something doesn't
> rebloom
> in your
> yard doesn't mean they aren't rebloomers.   My opinion.
> 'Forever
> Blue'
> doesn't rebloom here, but I don't question that it is a
> rebloomer
> . . .
> for
> you and others.
>
>
>
> &lt;&lt;A once off event
> of rebloom is exciting, and
> worth
> noting , but
> doesn't make that plant a
> rebloomer for  me.  I have over
> the
> years
> have had a good number of
> oncers put up an out of season or even
> twice
> a year bloom. these things
> can and do happen. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
>
>
> Doesn't make it a
> rebloomer  as
> far as I'm concerned.&gt;&gt;
>
>
> 'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom for me
> in Alvaton, in the 90's.  It grew over 40 inches tall and I quit
> counting at
> 18 buds.  Don't think it has done this since.  It's my opinion that
> it's
> been
> proven to be a plus when breeding rebloomers.  It contributed height,
> branching and improved flower form.  Maybe there was another path?
> Maybe
> even
> a better path, but nothing else has proven to measure up.
>
>
> Betty
> Wilkerson
> Zone 6 KY
> autmirislvr@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> Chuck
> Chapman &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
> Sent: Thu,
> Oct
> 2, 2014 7:16 am
> Subject:
> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
> Bloom
> triggers for plants are
> complicated, and you can occasionally get
> misfires. A
> number of years ago
> in our area some apple trees  bloomed
> in fall. But a once
> off occurrence.
> Rebloom yes, but it doesn't make
> these apple trees
> rebloomers.
> Right now
> I have  Victoria Falls in bloom, and on a 50" stalk,
> standing up
> straight
> and tall. But the only time it has fall bloomed in
> over
> 20 years of
> growing it. I'm not going to send in a rebloom report
> on it as it
> is a
> once
> off event. About 4 years ago I had a fall bloom
> on a clump of Best
> Bet. Again
> a  once off event as it also has done
> this once in about 20
> years.
> I'm not
> going to list them as rebloomers
> for me in my zone 4
> garden. And
> having them
> listed as  zone 4
> rebloomers would be inaccurate
> and deceptive.
> Not a
> behaviour you can
> rely on.
>
> On the other hand,
> my SDB Juiced Up is
> reblooming
> now on several
> clumps. I first had
> rebloom on  Juiced Up about
> 2006, after
> initial
> bloom in 1998. It was
> interesting, but even if it had a
> rebloom
> parent,
> that still didn't make
> it a rebloomer. But in the past  four
> years it
> has rebloomed  three times.
> I'll now report it as a rebloomer for my
> climate
> zone.
>
> A once off
> event  of rebloom is exciting, and worth noting ,
> but
> doesn't make that
> plant a rebloomer for  me.  I have over the years
> have had a
> good number
> of  oncers put up an out of season or even twice
> a
> year bloom.
> these
> things can and do happen. Doesn't make it a
> rebloomer  as
> far as I'm
> concerned.
>
> Chuck Chapman
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