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Re: iris DIGEST V1 #327
iris@hort.net

Are there any of you separating your iris and have any extra ones you would like to give away.  I would be glad to pay the shipping and handling.

Thanks very much.

Brenda Collett

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2014, at 8:49 AM, iris-owner@hort.net (iris DIGEST) wrote:

> 
> iris DIGEST         Saturday, October 4 2014         Volume 01 : Number 327
> 
> 
> 
> In this issue:
> 
>        Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
>        [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs?
>        Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
>        Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>        Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>        Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
>        Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>        [iris] Please TRIM the message histories, especially when digest!!
>        Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>        Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>        [iris] REB: rebloom
>        Re: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs?
>        Re: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs?
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 18:17:05 -0400
> From: Chuck Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
> 
> In  this pedigree, both Violet Music and Autumn Bugler are reliable 
> zone 4 rebloomers. No need for anything else to get rebloom..
> 
> Victoria Falls is  consistent in rebloom in a number of areas.  I have 
> gotten good consistent fall cyclic rebloomers out of it
> 
> 
> Chuck Chapman
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 4:21 pm
> Subject: [iris] REB: rebloom
> 
> One strong "summer" bloomer here is
> 
> OXMOOR HILLS  (James Ennenga, R. 2003) Sdlg. E-90-31-1. TB, 30" (76 
> cm),
> E & RE
>     S. violet blue (RHS 90B); Violet Music X E-85-11-1: (Autumn Bugler
> x Sea Wolf). Ennenga 2004.
> 
> In town, 5 miles from me, on decent soil it puts up stalks all summer
> when watered and fertilized.  It was bred and selected in Knoxville, 
> TN,
> about 50 miles from me, on top of a hill in clay subsoil.
> 
> Violet Music is Violet Miracle X Victoria Falls.  Violet Music is a
> reliable rebloomer.  Victoria Falls is a sporadic rebloomer (never has
> rebloomed here & I've had it for >20 yrs)
> 
> I don't grow Autumn Bugler, don't know anything about it, other than
> that it's listed as a rebloomer.
> 
> Sea Wolf is not a rebloomer, Navy Strut X Mystique, both sporadic
> rebloomers somewhere, presumably "coastal zone 8"
> 
> So here's one example of a lot of coastal zone 8 (or possibly zone 7)
> sporadic rebloomers combing in one pedigree to make a strong rebloomer
> in this area.  Would it bloom so continuously farther north?  I don't 
> know.
> 
> Linda Mann east TN zone 7b USA
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 21:23:51 -0400
> From: Phloid <4390a9e81@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: [iris] RIS checklist - cumulative yrs?
> 
> I'm told the RIS checklist is cumulative across years. Does anyone know 
> how many years of accumulation the 2012 checklist would represent? Thanks
> 
> Shaub Dunkley
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:50:22 -0400
> From: Phloid <4390a9e81@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
> 
> Funny, I never noticed the reliability comments in the Description 
> section. I guess I am just a numbers guy. Here is what caught my eye 
> (RIS 2012 checklist):
> 
> States rebloom reported: AR, AZ, CA, GA, ID, KY, MA, MD, MI, MO, MT, NE, 
> NM, NY, OK, OR, SC, TX, VA, WA, WV, Australia, Netherlands, Switzerland
> USDA Zones: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
> 
> Nice to have more than magic keywords to ponder. So I am not surprised 
> to see it bloom in the fall in my z6b garden in 2013 and 2014 off a 2012 
> planting. Now if we could get the "one in twenty yrs in z4" kinda stuff 
> folded in we'd be cooking with gas.
> 
> Shaub Dunkley Z6b NC
> 
> On 10/3/2014 7:08 PM, Linda Mann wrote:
>> Violet Music is an unreliable late cycle rebloomer here, not an all 
>> summer long rebloomer like offspring Oxmoor Hills.  Maybe summers are 
>> too hot for VM to bloom earlier here.
>> 
>> I'm surprised to hear you say that about Victoria Falls.  I'd always 
>> heard that it was sporadic everywhere.
>> 
>> The Rebloom Checklist says "reblooms, but not reliable in any part of 
>> the country".  Which is probably where I got the idea that it doesn't 
>> rebloom consistently anywhere.
>> 
>> Please share any consistent rebloom geographic info for VF with Robin 
>> Shadlow, so she can alter that statement.  thanks.
>> 
>> On 10/3/2014 6:17 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
>>> Victoria Falls is  consistent in rebloom in a number of areas.
>> 
>> Linda Mann
>> 
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:10:31 -0400
> From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> 
> In other words, if it won't rebloom farther north than zone 8, it's useless.
> 
> Interesting perspective, especially as the whole planet warms.
> 
> On 10/3/2014 1:54 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
>> warm climate California rebloomers, that rebloom only in  areas with
>> long growing seasons......These genes are  useless in enabling  fall cyclic rebloom genes, summer 
> rebloom genes or the Whenever  bloom genes..
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:23:52 -0400
> From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> 
> Geneva, unfortunately, information on bloom habits of all cultivars 
> known to rebloom isn't available.  The cumulative checklist simply lists 
> all cultivars reported to have managed to rebloom and which zones and 
> states/countries/provinces reported it.
> 
> Chuck has postulated several types of rebloom genes based on his own 
> data and observations of others, but only for those genes that affect 
> bloom triggers.
> 
> There are other genes involved related to growth rate, root shoot ratio, 
> allocation of energy to roots, shoots and bloom production as well as to 
> disease resistance (mechanisms of repair and resistance), freeze 
> tolerance and probably a bunch of other things that have to be part of 
> the rebloom "package" that each iris breeder automatically selects for 
> because they are what help make it possible for any plant to rebloom in 
> their growing conditions.
> 
> On 10/3/2014 2:16 PM, Geneva Coats wrote:
>>  Would that sort of information be listed in the book that they
>> offer for sale?
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:08:57 -0400
> From: Linda Mann <101l@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] REB: rebloom
> 
> Violet Music is an unreliable late cycle rebloomer here, not an all 
> summer long rebloomer like offspring Oxmoor Hills.  Maybe summers are 
> too hot for VM to bloom earlier here.
> 
> I'm surprised to hear you say that about Victoria Falls.  I'd always 
> heard that it was sporadic everywhere.
> 
> The Rebloom Checklist says "reblooms, but not reliable in any part of 
> the country".  Which is probably where I got the idea that it doesn't 
> rebloom consistently anywhere.
> 
> Please share any consistent rebloom geographic info for VF with Robin 
> Shadlow, so she can alter that statement.  thanks.
> 
> On 10/3/2014 6:17 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
>> Victoria Falls is  consistent in rebloom in a number of areas.
> 
> Linda Mann
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:51:29 -0600
> From: Betty Gunther <63e82e8b1@rewrite.hort.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> 
>     I _have_ been following this argument and have learned a lot.   I 
> have had a tiny bit of rebloom here in Northern New Mexico where any 
> rebloom is unusual.   It has helped me understand all the different 
> thing rebloomer jcan mean.   I had been somewhat mystifyied about the 
> difference among Double Your Fun, Immortality, and Plum Wine.  They all 
> rebloomed a second ( and sometimes third and fourth) time.  Now I see 
> that there are different genes involved and different types of rebloom.
>     It doesn't bother me that you all are not in agreement.  I am 
> learning a lot anyway.  Who can tell when the break thru will come? My 
> experience is that nature is full of surprises!
>     Keep on crossing and keep on discussing.  I am enjoying it.
> Betty G.  in New Mexico
> On 10/3/2014 12:32 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
>> The term coastal rebloomers is not a term I use , but was responding 
>> to a post using that term.
>> 
>> Basically, if an iris is reported as  reblooming in zone 8 and 9 but 
>> not regularly in cooler climates, it would be a  facilitative 
>> vernalization rebloomer, depending on a long  growing season to rebloom.
>> 
>> Good fall cyclic include  Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English 
>> Cottage, Lilac Stitchery, Dorcus Lives Again and Red Revival , for 
>> examples. Basically you are looking at ones that perform  in Zones 
>> 4-7, after heat of summer has past.  some of these  ones such as 
>> Immortality and Queen Dorothy are summer   rebloomers.
>> 
>> This  way of looking at genetics of rebloomers is  my theory, based on 
>> much time looming at all this, studying bloom trigger scientific 
>> information, and  crosses made. You won't find  much on this, although 
>> back issue s of Reblooming  Recorder has some of my articles.
>> 
>> Chuck Chapman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geneva Coats <4e56e7df1@rewrite.hort.net>
>> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:21 pm
>> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> 
>> Chuck, I am new to all this and since I live in California, we do have 
>> a long
>> blooming season. However, I live in the inland valley where it freezes at
>> night for about two months every year, and the summers can approach 110
>> degrees. I do not have a "coastal" climate here, nor do most people in
>> California. Granted, we are not in a "Deep freeze" area like the 
>> midwest or
>> east coast, but there are many plants that can be grown in a true coastal
>> climate that can't survive here in the inland valley where I live. I 
>> suspect
>> that the TN-KY area may have a climate somewhere in between the two 
>> extremes
>> (mu husband is from western Kentucky)
>> ?
>> ?
>> I would be interested in knowing
>> some examples of plants that are "cyclic" rebloomers as opposed to
>> "facilitative vernalization" rebloomers. Do you have specific 
>> cultivars that
>> you have found good to work with?
>> ?
>> I just recently joined the Reblooming
>> Iris Society. Would that sort of information be listed in the book 
>> that they
>> offer for sale?
>> ?
>> Thanks! Geneva
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chuck Chapman &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
>> To: iris
>> &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
>> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 10:56 am
>> Subject: Re: [iris]
>> Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Coastal rebloomer is being used  to
>> refer to the warm climate
>> California rebloomers, that rebloom only in
>> areas with long growing
>> seasons.  I call them  "Facilitative vernalization"
>> bloomers. Meaning
>> that they  bloom better when they have a cold period, but
>> when they
>> don't, they will bloom after about 5 months of growth after  bud
>> set.
>> So if you don't get this long   growing season, they don't
>> "rebloom".
>> These genes are  useless in enabling  fall cyclic rebloom genes,
>> summer
>> rebloom genes or the Whenever  bloom genes..
>> 
>> Chuck Chapman
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J. Griffin Crump
>> &lt;70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
>> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
>> Sent:
>> Fri, Oct 3, 2014 1:21 pm
>> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> Chuck  --  I haven't been following this discussion closely.  What do
>> you
>> mean by a "coastal" rebloomer?  --  Griff
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chuck Chapman
>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM
>> To:
>> iris@hort.net
>> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> 
>> Any
>> examples of   rebloomers that can be attributed to crosses with
>> coastal or
>> occasional rebloomers?
>> 
>> Based on what I know of genetics of rebloomers, I
>> can't see any
>> benefits. And possible  deficits from bring in tender  coastal
>> genes.
>> 
>> Rare events based on misfiring  of bloom genes  in response to
>> rare
>> growing conditions will not add anything  beneficial to gene pool
>> information. It will not give any information to aid  breeding.
>> 
>> You need
>> basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics, which
>> include
>> plant hardiness in  many climates. Good performance in coastal
>> areas doesn't
>> translate into anything useful for harder climates..
>> 
>> 
>> Chuck Chapman
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Betty Wilkerson
>> &lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
>> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
>> Sent: Fri,
>> Oct 3, 2014 9:38 am
>> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> Maybe it depends on the goal?
>> 
>> 
>> If your goal is to collect irises that
>> will
>> have a GOOD chance of reblooming in your yard, then it would be
>> advisable to
>> collect those that rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area.
>> Learn
>> from
>> local gardeners. If none exist, you can learn by careful use of
>> the
>> checklist.
>> If your goal is to improve or diversify the rebloom class,
>> through
>> breeding,
>> perhaps you might want to venture a bit beyond the
>> default rebloomers.
>> ??  An
>> occasional outcross to coastal rebloomers of
>> stellar growth habits
>> might be of
>> benefit.  I work specifically with tall
>> bearded irises and I'm a bit
>> too old
>> to begin with inter class crosses
>> etc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> &lt;&lt;Once in 20, of no
>> value,
>> except to be
>> used as misleading information from the "Spring
>> Gardens " of the
>> world.
>> And you can bet that they will use it.&gt;&gt;
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Betty
>> Wilkerson
>> Zone 6 KY
>> autmirislvr@aol.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original
>> Message-----
>> From: Chuck Chapman
>> &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
>> To:
>> iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
>> Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014
>> 8:16 pm
>> Subject: Re:
>> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> 
>> 
>> For those people
>> who have
>> iris that rebloom  regularly for them, they
>> report. And then
>> information
>> is properly recorded.   And expectations
>> of   various  rebloom
>> in various
>> zones  can be relied on. Once in 20
>> years in zone 4 is not
>> information
>> that can be counted on.
>> 
>> When you check  the "rebloom" iris
>> offered by
>> Spring Garden and ilk,
>> you find that they have used  rebloom
>> information
>> from list , sometime
>> along the process. When checking out some of
>> their
>> listing I found
>> information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was
>> recorded as a one
>> time event, of rebloom in Australia.  No other rebloom
>> reported.  This
>> iris (along with many other on their list) will never
>> rebloom
>> in
>> Canada. Some don't even make it through first year.   Many
>> people by
>> these collections,   both in Canada and USA.  When they don't have
>> rebloom
>> they then can  give up on rebloomers.  Several such  comments
>> on
>> "Iris
>> lovers" recently are very likely from this sort of practice.
>> 
>> So
>> a "once off"
>> rebloom from  one iris in one location, when reported
>> as a
>> reblooming iris
>> can have unwanted effects.  Even if it is  once
>> every
>> three years , it gives
>> useful information.  Once in 20, of no
>> value,
>> except to be used as misleading
>> information from the "Spring
>> Gardens " of
>> the world. And you can bet that
>> they will use it.
>> 
>> Chuck Chapman
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Betty
>> Wilkerson
>> &lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
>> To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
>> Sent: Thu,
>> Oct 2,
>> 2014 4:46 pm
>> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>> May be a
>> matter of neuances, but . . . just because something doesn't
>> rebloom
>> in your
>> yard doesn't mean they aren't rebloomers.   My opinion.
>> 'Forever
>> Blue'
>> doesn't rebloom here, but I don't question that it is a
>> rebloomer
>> . . .
>> for
>> you and others.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> &lt;&lt;A once off event
>> of rebloom is exciting, and
>> worth
>> noting , but
>> doesn't make that plant a
>> rebloomer for  me.  I have over
>> the
>> years
>> have had a good number of
>> oncers put up an out of season or even
>> twice
>> a year bloom. these things
>> can and do happen. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
>> 
>> 
>> Doesn't make it a
>> rebloomer  as
>> far as I'm concerned.&gt;&gt;
>> 
>> 
>> 'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom for me
>> in Alvaton, in the 90's.  It grew over 40 inches tall

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