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Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
  • From: Betty Wilkerson <101n@rewrite.hort.net>
  • Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 13:20:36 -0400

'Pink Attraction' has bloomed in the summer here. (South Central KY, zone 6)
This is an important observation for hybridizers.  Unfortunately, it may not
pass this trait along to it's children.  


<<Good fall cyclic include
Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English 
Cottage, Lilac Stitchery, Dorcus
Lives Again and Red Revival , for 
examples.>>




Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman
<db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014
1:37 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer


The term coastal
rebloomers is not a term I use , but was responding to 
a post using that
term.

Basically, if an iris is reported as  reblooming in zone 8 and 9  but
not regularly in cooler climates, it would be a  facilitative  
vernalization
rebloomer, depending on a long  growing season to 
rebloom.

Good fall cyclic
include  Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English 
Cottage, Lilac Stitchery,
Dorcus Lives Again and Red Revival , for 
examples. Basically you are looking
at ones that perform  in Zones 4-7, 
after heat of summer has past.  some of
these  ones such as Immortality 
and Queen Dorothy are summer   rebloomers.
This  way of looking at genetics of rebloomers is  my theory, based on 
much
time looming at all this, studying bloom trigger scientific 
information, and
crosses made. You won't find  much on this, although 
back issues of
Reblooming  Recorder has some of my articles.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original
Message-----
From: Geneva Coats <4e56e7df1@rewrite.hort.net>
To: iris
<iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re:
classifying as a Rebloomer

Chuck, I am new to all this and since I live in
California, we do have 
a long
blooming season. However, I live in the inland
valley where it freezes 
at
night for about two months every year, and the
summers can approach 110
degrees. I do not have a "coastal" climate here, nor
do most people in
California. Granted, we are not in a "Deep freeze" area like
the 
midwest or
east coast, but there are many plants that can be grown in a
true 
coastal
climate that can't survive here in the inland valley where I
live. I 
suspect
that the TN-KY area may have a climate somewhere in between
the two 
extremes
(mu husband is from western Kentucky)
?
?
I would be
interested in knowing
some examples of plants that are "cyclic" rebloomers as
opposed to
"facilitative vernalization" rebloomers. Do you have specific
cultivars 
that
you have found good to work with?
?
I just recently joined the
Reblooming
Iris Society. Would that sort of information be listed in the book
that 
they
offer for sale?
?
Thanks! Geneva




-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To: iris
&lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 10:56 am
Subject: Re: [iris]
Re:
classifying as a Rebloomer




Coastal rebloomer is being used  to
refer to
the warm climate
California rebloomers, that rebloom only in
areas with long
growing
seasons.  I call them  "Facilitative vernalization"
bloomers. Meaning
that they  bloom better when they have a cold period, but
when they
don't,
they will bloom after about 5 months of growth after  bud
set.
So if you don't
get this long   growing season, they don't
"rebloom".
These genes are  useless
in enabling  fall cyclic rebloom genes,
summer
 rebloom genes or the Whenever
bloom genes..

Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: J. Griffin Crump
&lt;70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent:
Fri,
Oct 3, 2014 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
Chuck
--  I haven't been following this discussion closely.  What do
you
mean by a
"coastal" rebloomer?  --  Griff

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck
Chapman
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM
To:
iris@hort.net
Subject: Re:
[iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer

Any
examples of   rebloomers that can
be attributed to crosses with
coastal or
occasional rebloomers?

Based on what
I know of genetics of rebloomers, I
can't see any
benefits. And possible
deficits from bring in tender  coastal
genes.

Rare events based on misfiring
of bloom genes  in response to
rare
growing conditions will not add anything
beneficial to gene pool
information. It will not give any information to aid
breeding.

You need
basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics,
which
include
plant hardiness in  many climates. Good performance in coastal
areas doesn't
translate into anything useful for harder climates..


Chuck
Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wilkerson
&lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Fri,
Oct 3,
2014 9:38 am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
Maybe it
depends on the goal?


If your goal is to collect irises that
will
have a GOOD
chance of reblooming in your yard, then it would be
advisable to
collect those
that rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area.
Learn
from
local gardeners. If
none exist, you can learn by careful use of
the
checklist.
If your goal is to
improve or diversify the rebloom class,
through
breeding,
perhaps you might
want to venture a bit beyond the
default rebloomers.
??  An
occasional
outcross to coastal rebloomers of
stellar growth habits
might be of
benefit.
I work specifically with tall
bearded irises and I'm a bit
too old
to begin
with inter class crosses
etc.






&lt;&lt;Once in 20, of no
value,
except to
be
used as misleading information from the "Spring
Gardens " of the
world.
And
you can bet that they will use it.&gt;&gt;





Betty
Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com




-----Original
Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman
&lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To:
iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Thu,
Oct 2, 2014
8:16 pm
Subject: Re:
[iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer


For
those people
who have
iris that rebloom  regularly for them, they
report. And
then
information
is properly recorded.   And expectations
of   various
rebloom
in various
zones  can be relied on. Once in 20
years in zone 4 is not
information
that can be counted on.

When you check  the "rebloom" iris
offered by
Spring Garden and ilk,
you find that they have used  rebloom
information
from list , sometime
along the process. When checking out some of
their
listing I found
information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was
recorded as a one
time event, of rebloom in Australia.  No other rebloom
reported.  This
iris (along with many other on their list) will never
rebloom
in
Canada. Some don't even make it through first year.   Many
people by
these
collections,   both in Canada and USA.  When they don't have
rebloom
they then
can  give up on rebloomers.  Several such  comments
on
"Iris
lovers" recently
are very likely from this sort of practice.

So
a "once off"
rebloom from  one
iris in one location, when reported
as a
reblooming iris
can have unwanted
effects.  Even if it is  once
every
three years , it gives
useful information.
Once in 20, of no
value,
except to be used as misleading
information from the
"Spring
Gardens " of
the world. And you can bet that
they will use it.

Chuck
Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty
Wilkerson
&lt;101n@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To: iris &lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Thu,
Oct 2,
2014 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
May be a
matter of neuances, but . . . just because something doesn't
rebloom
in your
yard doesn't mean they aren't rebloomers.   My opinion.
'Forever
Blue'
doesn't
rebloom here, but I don't question that it is a
rebloomer
. . .
for
you and
others.



&lt;&lt;A once off event
of rebloom is exciting, and
worth
noting ,
but
doesn't make that plant a
rebloomer for  me.  I have over
the
years
have
had a good number of
oncers put up an out of season or even
twice
a year
bloom. these things
can and do happen. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;


Doesn't make it a
rebloomer  as
far as I'm concerned.&gt;&gt;


'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom
for me
in Alvaton, in the 90's.  It grew over 40 inches tall and I quit
counting at
18 buds.  Don't think it has done this since.  It's my opinion
that
it's
been
proven to be a plus when breeding rebloomers.  It contributed
height,
branching and improved flower form.  Maybe there was another path?
Maybe
even
a better path, but nothing else has proven to measure up.


Betty
Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com




-----Original
Message-----
From:
Chuck
Chapman &lt;db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net&gt;
To: iris
&lt;iris@hort.net&gt;
Sent: Thu,
Oct
2, 2014 7:16 am
Subject:
[iris] Re:
classifying as a Rebloomer


Bloom
triggers for plants are
complicated, and
you can occasionally get
misfires. A
number of years ago
in our area some
apple trees  bloomed
in fall. But a once
off occurrence.
Rebloom yes, but it
doesn't make
these apple trees
rebloomers.
Right now
I have  Victoria Falls in
bloom, and on a 50" stalk,
standing up
straight
and tall. But the only time it
has fall bloomed in
over
20 years of
growing it. I'm not going to send in a
rebloom report
on it as it
is a
once
off event. About 4 years ago I had a fall
bloom
on a clump of Best
Bet. Again
a  once off event as it also has done
this
once in about 20
years.
I'm not
going to list them as rebloomers
for me in my
zone 4
garden. And
having them
listed as  zone 4
rebloomers would be
inaccurate
and deceptive.
Not a
behaviour you can
rely on.

On the other hand,
my SDB Juiced Up is
reblooming
now on several
clumps. I first had
rebloom on
Juiced Up about
2006, after
initial
bloom in 1998. It was
interesting, but
even if it had a
rebloom
parent,
that still didn't make
it a rebloomer. But in
the past  four
years it
has rebloomed  three times.
I'll now report it as a
rebloomer for my
climate
zone.

A once off
event  of rebloom is exciting, and
worth noting ,
but
doesn't make that
plant a rebloomer for  me.  I have over
the years
have had a
good number
of  oncers put up an out of season or even
twice
a
year bloom.
these
things can and do happen. Doesn't make it a
rebloomer  as
far as I'm
concerned.

Chuck Chapman
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