Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum

**a san juan k*@yahoo.com**

"I looked at pics of P. stenolobum from that paper and
they look similar in lobe shape to the short form - so
maybe it's the "long lobe" form that needs a new name 
- LOL...."

pardon, actually the pics in the paper look
intermediate between the pic i showed and pics of some
of beautiful forms with very long narrow lobes....

--- a san juan <kalim1998@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Very nicely put!
> 
> As you say, some cultivated samples may tend to be
> those that are "extreme" samples from the wild, and
> thus are not truly representative of the "average"
> look of the species (that is, the wild population
> may
> form a  continuum of plant forms).
> 
> The pic of one of the leaves of that small plant
> called "P. williamsii" shows short lobes but with
> edges that are ruffled (and some of newer leaves
> just
> coming out are starting to get even more 'wavy'):
> 
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_7_1_asj_p_stenolobum_1.jpg
> 
> I looked at pics of P. stenolobum from that paper
> and
> they look similar in lobe shape to the short form -
> so
> maybe it's the "long lobe" form that needs a new
> name 
> - LOL....
> 
> But, honestly, i do like the ones with longer,
> thinner
> lobes though ;-)
> 
> --- Julius Boos <ju-bo@msn.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > >From : 	a san juan <kalim1998@yahoo.com>
> > Reply-To : 	Discussion of aroids
> > <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> > Sent : 	Friday, July 1, 2005 9:21 PM
> > To : 	Discussion of aroids
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> > Subject : 	Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum
> > 
> > Dear Friends,
> > 
> > Eduardo has informed us of exactly what the case
> is
> > w/ these two very 
> > different and 'good' species (see his letter of
> > 30th, 8.18 pm, addressed to 
> > 'Tom" (Dr. Croat), but allow me one more
> explanation
> > on what might have and 
> > may still be causing some confusion.
> > 
> > [By the way, the leaf ratios asked for on these
> two
> > species are---"Anterior 
> > division (ratio length/width)
> >   P. williamsii--1 - 1.5.
> > P. stenolobum 2.1 - 3.3.
> > (these are copied from Dr. Gonclaves' paper)
> > Other critical differences that separate these two
> > species documented by Dr. 
> > Goncalves in his paper are--The gynoceum (immature
> > fruit) in P. stenolobum 
> > is flask-shaped, while that of P. williamsii is
> > barrel shaped.   The ovary 
> > of P. stenolobum has 11-12 locules (chambers)
> while
> > that of P. williamsii 
> > has only 7-8.]
> > 
> >   Before Dr. Goncalves published his paper, when
> > word got out that the plant 
> > that we all had been refering to as P. williamsii
> > was going to be described 
> > as a new/good species, several collectors/growers
> > then assumed that only the 
> > plants with the ruffled leaf edges were this new
> > species ( P. stenolobum), 
> > and the plants with the not-so-long anterior lobes
> > and flat leaf blades must 
> > still be P. williamsii--- we were wrong!    The
> TRUE
> > P. williamsii is a 
> > completely different species, seemingly not in
> > cultivation, rare in 
> > herbarium collections, and very different looking
> to
> > either one of the vars. 
> > of the now-new P. stenolobum, and grows FAR away
> > from all the different 
> > populations of the new P. stenolobum.  (see
> > Eduardo`s recent letter on 
> > this).
> > So--the plants that have a very long leaf, both
> the
> > ruffled and the 
> > unruffled, ALL are TRUE P. stenolobum.   Man
> ALWAYS
> > gravitates to collecting 
> > from wild populations what he views as the most
> > attractive or even odd 
> > members of a broard variety of either plants or
> > animals, it happens all the 
> > time with collectors, but true scientists collect
> > 'down the middle', a 
> > representitive sample that illustrates the
> extremes
> > of a species.   This 
> > obviously pertains to the plants under discussion,
> > all seen are P. 
> > stenolobum.
> > 
> > Julius
> > WPB, Florida
> > 
> > >>Could you give numbers for the ratios? I'm
> > curious,
> > and glad this conversation came up.<<
> > 
> > 
> > --- Russ <chammer@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >The leaves on my 'stenolobum' are nowhere near as
> > >ruffled as the one in last year's Aroid show, or
> > the
> > >2 pictures I found
> > >of P. 'williamsii' in my Exotica.  But they seem
> to
> > >be the same in narrow lobe width and proportions.
> > So, these are obviously 
> > >both stenolobum with a
> > >variation in the leaf edge.  BUT, these are not
> the
> > >two opposing plants I have in mind as
> questionable.
> > The 'old williamsii' 
> > >that I'm referencing has much
> > >shorter, and wider lobes, and leaves are not as
> > >thick or stiff.  They truly do not look like the
> > >same species.  Russ>
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> > 
> > 
> >
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