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Re: Chaos in Monstera names

  • Subject: Re: Chaos in Monstera names
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 12:02:11 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Maestros of Monstera,


If any of you all wish to eat a Monstera deliciosa fruit, this is the trick.  Pick or buy a mature fruit.  It should be green and firm and there should be a slight separation between the scales near the peduncle. Wrap the fruit in a brown paper bag or aluminum foil. Do not attempt to eat it until the little green plates or scales of the rind begin to fall off.  When the remaining plates are very easy to remove, it can be eaten.  The inedible core should just pull away.  Some people are sensitive to the calcium oxalate, even in fully ripe fruit. If you have never eaten Monstera deliciosa or are sensitive...caution is advised.  

Julius, I do think about the Pleistocene megafauna and the Quaternary extinctions.  If there are well preserved fossils within the distributional range of Monstera deliciosa, stable isotope analysis can tell what the animal ate.  Tapirs are monogastric browers, so they are good candidates.  I thought about extinct ground sloths...but their modern counterparts have such a slow metabolism, could the seeds pass through unscathed?  Sloths only defecate once a week.  Ruminants would destroy seed and other ungulates...horses, etc. are grazers.  Other megafauna herbivores are  mammoths, mastodons, camels, peccaries,various Rodentia...I do not know the bird fauna well.

Botanist Joel Lau is studying Hawaiian banana varieties, I can ask him if he has information on the loss of seeds over time.  Dr. Diane Ragone is the director of the Breadfruit Institute which has 200+ accessions of breadfruit.  She is doing molecular work on the taxonomic relationships and I can ask her if she knows about the loss of seed in breadfruit.  Yes, Julius...you always give us food for thought.



--- On Sat, 7/5/08, ju-bo@msn.com <ju-bo@msn.com> wrote:

> From: ju-bo@msn.com <ju-bo@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 3:35 AM
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: abri1973@wp.pl
> > To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> > Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:50:51 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> Dear Monstera fans,
> Marek`s page (see link below) illustrates what I believe
> are the two forms/vars./clones of Monstera deliciosa.
> How I wish someone (Tom??) would give us a definitive
> answer to the question constantly being presented---does M.
> deliciosa actually occur in two forms, the BIG var. , and a
> SECOND smaller, more vineing var. pictured in the web page
> posted by Marek (below).  This seemingly smaller var. or
> clone is refered to as M. deliciosa "Borsigiana",
> which does NOT look like a Raphidophora sp. 
> Leyland in Hawaii has asked for clarification (he reports
> that he has a large colony of this smaller var./clone!),
> Harry at Selby has reported that he observed what he said
> was the BIG clone/var. in the wilds in Mexico---so we are
> left wondering if this smaller var./clone might be just a
> juvinile plant of the larger form, or another and much
> smaller var./clone of the same species!   I guess we shall
> wait till Leland or someone else who has an old,
> established plant of the SMALLER plant sees it bloom!   
> The larger var. clone certainly is a heavy bloomer, my
> plant of this in my front yard which I grew from seed
> collected in a fruit at the late Jim Enck`s home blooms and
> produces fruit every year.
> While I am pondering this aroid, let me pose a question
> which has thus far eluded anyone answering or suggesting a
> soloution.   Monstera deliciosa was so named because it (at
> least the large clone) produces wonderfully fragrant and
> edible fruit.  (do NOT attempt to eat this fruit unless you
> know what you are doing!   Serious itching of the mouth can
> result).  These fruit look like a huge banana, and consist
> of a LOT of flesh and just a few BIG seeds well
> ''hidden'' in this delicious flesh/fruit.  
> I have thought about if perhaps this almost complete lack of
> seeds amongst the flesh was bacause of selection by ancient
> man, as it  would not appear to favor a species of plant
> into producing a huge fruit with just a few or no seeds
> (unless it evolved in Mexico to be swallowed whole by one
> of the now extinct members of the tapir family, or even one
> of the extinct large mammals belonging to the also extinct
> ''megafauna'' which existed in that area up
> to around, I believe, 15,000 yea
>  rs ago.   
> Along these same ''non-seeded' lines of
> discussion--Think about the banana and breadfruit, both are
> select clones of seeded species, and both plants produce
> fruit without seeds, but they can not reproduce sexually,
> and generally speaking depend on man to multiply them by
> division of rhizomes in the case of bananas, or root
> offshoots of branch cuttings in the case of breadfruit.  
> By the way, both bananas AND breadfruit exist with seeded
> forms.  In bananas, the seeded plant is used as the female
> parent, and is hand-pollinated by a seedless plant's
> pollen to produce new seedless varieties.  I believe that
> in breadfruit all seedles varieties are from chance
> finds/selections by man from amongst the different
> varieties, I am not aware if any breeding ever took place
> using the pollen from the seedless trees to hand-pollinate
> the seeded fruit-bearing trees.
> Food for thought, eh??
> Thanks to Marek, Harry, Leyland and everyone else who have
> added their information, photos and opinions to the
> discussion on Monstera deliciosa and other Monstera
> species!
> Good Growing,
> Julius
> >>Yes, it is. Rh. tetrasperma has deeper 2nd row
> veins, and usually 3 lobes 
> > (Monstera 'Borsigiana'can have more) very
> deeply cut.
> > For comparison here's a page on Monstera deliciosa
> 'Borsigiana'
> >
> http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/monstera/pertusa.htm
> > (I thought it was M. pertusa that's why this
> deceiving filename, sorry, I 
> > must change this.)
> > 
> > Marek
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Eric Schmidt"
> <leu242@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Discussion of aroids"
> <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 3:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names
> > 
> > 
> > > Is this Rhaphidophora tetrasperma?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://photobucket.com/image/monstera/Leu51/Vines/5809.jpg
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > Orlando,FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> __________
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