hort.net Seasonal photo, (c) 2006 Christopher P. Lindsey, All Rights Reserved: do not copy
articles | gallery of plants | blog | tech blog | plant profiles | patents | mailing lists | top stories | links | shorturl service | tom clothier's archive0
 Navigation
Articles
Gallery of Plants
Blog
Tech Blog
Plant Profiles
Patents
Mailing Lists
    FAQ
    Netiquette
    Search ALL lists
    Search help
    Subscription info
Top Stories
Links
sHORTurl service
Tom Clothier's Archive
 Top Stories
Disease could hit Britain's trees hard

Ten of the best snowdrop cultivars

Plant protein database helps identify plant gene functions

Dendroclimatologists record history through trees

Potato beetle could be thwarted through gene manipulation

Hawaii expands coffee farm quarantine

Study explains flower petal loss

Unauthorized use of a plant doesn't invalidate it's patent

RSS story archive

Re: ubba dubba reticulata

  • Subject: Re: ubba dubba reticulata
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:45:26 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Derek,

Aloha.

I am sorry...please understand that I am a high tech ignoramus and online neophyte.  I am willing to learn.  Also undertand that the system in my neighborhood is still on a rotary phone system.  I will change subjects as our tangential subject switching demands...but, please jump in if we get carried away.  I assumed I could not change the subject line in this forum...live and learn.

Aloha,

Leland


--- On Wed, 7/16/08, derek burch <dburch23@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> From: derek burch <dburch23@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> To: "'Discussion of aroids'" <aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 1:57 AM
> Dear Pete and Leland and everyone.
> 
>  
> 
> PLEASE don't just click 'Reply" without
> changing the subject line when the
> topic of your email has changed. 
> 
>  
> 
> I am interested in alocasias, I am interested in the
> alpha-taxonomist
> drought, but I should like to be able to open the emails
> that refer to a
> topic without having to take a lucky dip into what finally
> amounts to an
> email morass. At the moment it is a bit like my filing
> system in my office
> where everything goes into one file labeled "A" -
> that includes 'A letter',
> 'A reply' and so on. Very quick and easy. I do also
> have an "An" file where
> I put 'An invoice'
> 
> , An unpaid account'.
> 
>  
> 
> But I digress .
> 
>  
> 
> Regards, to all,
> 
>  
> 
> Derek
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]
> On Behalf Of Peter Boyce
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: Discussion of aroids
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Leland,
> 
>  
> 
> Well, where I live unless there is a change in education
> policy to imbue
> those few (and it is FEW) students with some botanical
> aptitude, to gain
> knowledge of the basic building blocks of botany, notably
> comparative
> morphology ecology & geomorphology, the spectre of no
> wide-experience field
> botanists, already a fact in many parts of Asia, will
> become a region-wide
> problem. In fact the whole of  taxonomy, let alone
> systematics, is in danger
> of slipping off the curriculum in universities throughout
> the region such
> that only the minute hard-core (essentially botanically
> hard-wired) folks
> will make it through and continue. The problem then will be
> that there are
> increasingly fewer jobs that call for taxonomic expertise
> such that those
> few that wish to remain in the field usually end up earning
> a living doing
> something at the best only tangentially associated with
> their passion. Of
> course the irony is that there has never been  a greater
> need for taxonomic
> expertise in order to make the rational decisions required
> to protect the
> remaining tropical habitats.
> 
>  
> 
> Curiously, I am not anywhere near as doubtful or indeed
> pessimistic about
> the increasing use of molecular data and also don't
> altogether agree with
> the total genome argument. Regarding the function of
> various parts of the
> molecular code, in recent years there has been made
> enormous strides in
> understanding what various coding regions 'do' such
> that the link with this
> and evo-devo is now a well established area of scientific
> exploration. Of
> course some of these areas are ferociously expensive but
> with molecular
> extraction methodologies and analyses programmes
> increasingly simplified
> costs are dropping such that basic extraction and
> methodologies are well
> within the budget of even quite modest research
> establishments.
> 
>  
> 
> Regarding the usefulness of molecular data, especially
> vis-a-vis the ability
> of the molecular practitioners to actual identify the
> organisms they are
> studying, yes, I agree, that still far too many molecular
> research outputs
> are the product of lab rats without any practical field
> training and worse
> are oftentimes undertaken without or with only minimal
> taxonomic cross
> fertilization. However, that situation is fast becoming
> history as more and
> more multi-author research outputs based on sound
> alpha-taxonomy, with the
> molecular toolbox being opened only once a decent
> 'traditional' taxonomy is
> established and is testable. This is much the approach we
> are using, with a
> multi-stranded project that is investigating alpha-tax. and
> then
> phylogentics and then using the phylogenies to investigate
> spatial
> evolution, etc. We have been very fotunate to find good
> students who are
> willing to spend the necessary field time as part of their
> molecular-based
> research and as a result have a much more complete
> biological reserach
> toolbox.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
>  
> 
> Peter
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> The main problem here 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: "brian lee" <
> <mailto:lbmkjm@yahoo.com> lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> 
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:45 AM
> 
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> 
>  
> 
> > Dear Pete,
> > 
> > Aloha.
> > 
> > What a shame.  What will happen when there are no
> field botanists with the
> knowledge to recognize species in habitat?  I have taken
> young molecular
> taxonomists into the field and some of them really have no
> clue what they
> are looking at until you tell them.  At this rate, there
> will come a time
> when no field botanists will be able to lead them to their
> samples...which
> they send off to distant labs to analyze the relationships.
> > 
> > The other problematic issue I see is that whole
> genomes are not analyzed,
> only sections that are not necessarily associated with
> known
> characteristics.  I see a great need for traditional
> botany...but the lure
> of molecular biology is hooking most of the young fish
> these days.  One day
> I see entire genomes of all plants being sequenced...which
> is a good thing
> in the long run. There will always be a great need for
> morphologists in the
> field, however...in my humble opinion...until all the
> plants are located on
> GPS and barcoded and linked to the great databases they
> envision.  Who will
> control this information?
> > 
> > In the meantime,I hope the horticulturists out there
> report their
> observations.  Unfortunately, most of these plants are not
> associated with
> good locality data... It will serve as a survey of
> variation,however.
> > 
> > Aloha,
> > 
> > Leland
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Peter Boyce <
> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Peter Boyce <
> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
> >> Hi Leland,
> >> 
> >> I was more thinking along the lines that the
> numerous folks
> >> who grow 
> >> Alocasia zebrina might pitch in with observations
> on the
> >> different 
> >> menifestation that this species takes in
> cultivation.
> >> 
> >> The Flora of the Philippines project is stll
> active but is
> >> suffering from 
> >> the same problem besetting several similar
> projects in
> >> Asia, that of a 
> >> dearth of botanists tackling alpha-taxonomy and
> the almost
> >> universal problem 
> >> that so few students are coming into field-work
> based
> >> botany once they leave 
> >> university such that as the few remaining active 
> >> field-taxonomists/systematits become fewer still
> there are
> >> a 
> >> disproportionately small number of young bloods
> entering
> >> the career.
> >> 
> >> Pete
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "brian lee" <
> <mailto:lbmkjm@yahoo.com> lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> < <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:17 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > Dear Pete,
> >> >
> >> > Aloha.
> >> >
> >> > It is hard to comment on issues that some of
> us have
> >> no knowledge on. 
> >> > That is not to say we do not have an
> obsessive desire
> >> for knowledge.  We 
> >> > wait on bated breath for tidbits of treasure
> from you.
> >> >
> >> > The Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum used to
> participate
> >> in a program called, 
> >> > the Philippine Flora Project that was to
> catalog as
> >> many of the in-situ 
> >> > plants remaining in the archipelago...which
> was being
> >> destroyed at a pace 
> >> > and scale that would see many habitats
> extirpated.  I
> >> do not recall the 
> >> > percentage of the destruction, but it was a
> >> significant proportion.  My 
> >> > point here is that if habitats are destroyed,
> it will
> >> be impossible to 
> >> > reconstruct some of these interesting pearls
> of
> >> information we all desire. 
> >> > I can ask Clyde Imada if Alocasia species
> were
> >> catalogued in this 
> >> > program...hopefully your contact will respond
> with a
> >> wealth of new 
> >> > information to enlighten the darkness.  I am
> >> optimistic that Melanie will 
> >> > answer the call.
> >> >
> >> > Aloha,
> >> >
> >> > Leland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Peter Boyce
> >> < <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> botanist@malesiana.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Peter Boyce <
> <mailto:botanist@malesiana.com>
> botanist@malesiana.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> < <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Cc: "Melanie P. Medecilo -
> hotmail"
> >> < <mailto:mmedecilo@hotmail.com>
> mmedecilo@hotmail.com>
> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 11:45 AM
> >> >> Hi Denis,
> >> >>
> >> >> I am quite surprised that no one has
> picked up on
> >> the last
> >> >> comment in your
> >> >> posting regarding the status of A.
> zebrina in
> >> cultivation.
> >> >>
> >> >> As you know, Alistair Hay in his
> herbarium-based
> >> account of
> >> >> Philippines'
> >> >> Alocasia (Gardens' Bulletin Singapore
> 51: 1-41
> >> (1999))
> >> >> treated A. zebrina as
> >> >> a variable species and included under
> that name A.
> >> >> wenzelii. He made no
> >> >> mention of the name A. tigrina (or A.
> zebrina
> >> tigrina) as
> >> >> this name and any
> >> >> combination thereof has never been
> formally
> >> published and
> >> >> thus from a strict
> >> >> botanical standpoint dos not exist.
> Goerverts et
> >> al.
> >> >> include a further name
> >> >> as a provisional syn. (A. liervalii) but
> without
> >> further
> >> >> discussion.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not withstanding the strict application
> of
> >> application of
> >> >> published names,
> >> >> it is clear to anyone who grows A.
> zebrina that
> >> there are
> >> >> several
> >> >> conspicuously different (but likewise
> clearly
> >> allied)
> >> >> entities in
> >> >> cultivation, among which the form with
> reticulated
> >> venation
> >> >> is particularly
> >> >> striking. What of course is needed is a
> >> comprehensive field
> >> >> study to try to
> >> >> untangle these cultivated clones and see
> where
> >> they may
> >> >> have originated. For
> >> >> that reason I have ccd this aroid-l
> posting to
> >> Melanie
> >> >> Medecilo in the
> >> >> Philippines; Melanie is currently working
> on
> >> >> Philippines' Alocasia and if
> >> >> anyone is able to shed some light on the
> status of
> >> the
> >> >> various clones of A.
> >> >> zebrina she can.
> >> >>
> >> >> Very best
> >> >>
> >> >> Peter
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Denis" <
> <mailto:denis@skg.com> denis@skg.com>
> >> >> To: "'Discussion of
> aroids'"
> >> >> <
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:23 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina
> 'reticulata' was
> >> subsequently
> >> >> tissue cultured by
> >> >> > Oglesby Plant Labs in the 1980's
> to
> >> satisfy the
> >> >> small collector's market
> >> >> > for this unusual plant. Only about
> 1,000 to
> >> 1,500
> >> >> plants were produced
> >> >> > at that time. You might could ask
> Plantsman
> >> Jim
> >> >> Georgusis who currently
> >> >> > is working at Oglesby Plants if he
> knows
> >> anymore about
> >> >> the origins of
> >> >> > this cultivar. I think he worked at
> Fantastic
> >> Gardens
> >> >> in the 1970's.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The plant is currently being
> produced in
> >> Tissue
> >> >> Culture at Agristarts,
> >> >> > Inc. in Apopka Florida.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The question is still open as to
> whether or
> >> not
> >> >> Alocasia zebrina is true
> >> >> > species described in the literature
> somewhere
> >> or just
> >> >> a sub variety of
> >> >> > Alocasia tigrina group.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Denis
> >> >> > Silver Krome Gardens, Inc.
> >> >> > Homestead Florida
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: 
> <mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> Harry Luther
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:05
> PM
> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I believe that I first saw an
> Alocasia
> >> >> "reticulata" at Fantastic
> Gardens
> >> >> > in Miami in the summer of 1976 in
> their
> >> private, keep
> >> >> out stock house.
> >> >> > This was when the Mentelos family
> had the
> >> nursery. My
> >> >> memory may be off
> >> >> > a bit as its filled with bromeliad
> stuff.   
> >> HEL
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: 
> <mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> brian lee
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:27
> PM
> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dear Enid,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > About 1986, Roberto Burle-Marx,
> Betty Ho,
> >> Robert
> >> >> Hirano, and I went to
> >> >> > the Philippines.  Corazon Aquino
> just became
> >> >> President, and it was a
> >> >> > wild time.  Our host, Ronnie Lane
> was
> >> murdered a week
> >> >> before our trip
> >> >> > and our new host was Dr. Vic Santos.
> There is
> >> an
> >> >> Alocasia 'Vic Santos'
> >> >> > that we brought in for the first
> time.  Vic
> >> made sure
> >> >> that we got all
> >> >> > sorts of Philippine plants,
> including many
> >> Alocasia
> >> >> species...including
> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina and several forms. 
> Soon
> >> after our
> >> >> trip, Vic was
> >> >> > murdered at his farm.  I do not know
> much
> >> about
> >> >> Alocasia, but Bob Hirano
> >> >> > does.  Bob's collections are
> maintained
> >> at Lyon
> >> >> Arboretum and they will
> >> >> > have records of all that was
> collected. Bob
> >> has
> >> >> retired and his eyes
> >> >> > were messed up in a botched
> operation. If
> >> this forum
> >> >> does not come up
> >> >> > with an answer for you, I can
> contact Ray
> >> Baker at the
> >> >> Arboretum and he
> >> >> > may have some information on their
> BG-base
> >> data
> >> >> system.  Another source
> >> >> > of information may be at the Bernice
> Pauahi
> >> Bishop
> >> >> Museum.  They were
> >> >> > involved in the Philippine Flora
> Project and
> >> I can
> >> >> contact Clyde Imada
> >> >> > to see if they have any records in
> >> conjunction with
> >> >> this program.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I look forward to seeing what this
> thread
> >> reveals.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Leland
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Enid
> >> < <mailto:enigo@bellsouth.net>
> enigo@bellsouth.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> From: Enid <
> <mailto:enigo@bellsouth.net> enigo@bellsouth.net>
> >> >> >> Subject: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> To: 
> <mailto:aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>
> aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008,
> 4:55 PM
> >> >> >> OK, does anyone out there know
> where
> >> Alocasia
> >> >> zebrina reticulata
> >> >> >> originally came from? Is it a
> proper
> >> species or a
> >> >> mutant?
> >> >> >> Enid
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Natural Selections Exotics
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>  <http://www.NSExotics.com>
> www.NSExotics.com_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >> 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >>
> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> > 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> > 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> > 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> 
> <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >  <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> > 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >>  <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> >> 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> > 
> > 
> >      
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >  <mailto:Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com>
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> > 
> <http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >_______________________________________________
> Aroid-L mailing list
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l


      
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l



Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index



 © 1995-2015 Mallorn Computing, Inc.All Rights Reserved.
Our Privacy Statement