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Re: One Last Comment

  • Subject: Re: One Last Comment
  • From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo@email.msn.com>
  • Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:57:27 -0600 (CST)


----- Original Message -----
From: <Ted.Held@hstna.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L <aroid-l@mobot.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:16 AM
Subject: One Last Comment

Dear Ted,

I am truly sorry that you have decided not to continue this discussion on
our puplic forum---I now see that you are NOT aware of the situation
reguarding the 'why' of the rarity of the plant (and MANY other plants and
animals, insects, etc.) in the area of Brazil where it is found, and at one
time was NOT endangered, so will try to fill you in (perhaps Eduardo can
'jump in' and lend a hand with more accurate facts, I am NOT completely
certain about the exact area involved, the exact 'why' of the land clearing,
etc.) on some information---I will also comment on a few of your statements
after each para.


>>Something comes along and shakes things
up (and I suppose this could be construed as "habitat loss" except that as
that phrase is usually used in today's parlance it means the whole "parking
lot" business - not "natural" climate changes, vulcanization, meteor
strikes, ice ages, etc.) and a host of the more specialized species get the
rug pulled out from under them. In fact, if the "trajectory" of all the
species present at any one time could be known and plotted, one would find
that some are on the ascendency, vigorous, robust, while others are in
decline, weak and prone to succumb to shocks of various sorts. Naturally,
some of the weak species are really cool from the parachial human
perspective. A lot of the coolest plants that this list likes are in that
category. But from the standpoint of the history of the world, whether
people like a particular life form does not matter very much.<<

Ted, is there any OTHER 'something' you can share with us that in recorded
history has 'shook things up' and caused the extincytion of life forms
BESIDE man and his machines, etc.??   The 'host of species' that have been
affected and made to go extinct in recorded history and a little before
recorded history have all been directly atributed to man`s
activities---paleo man is now thought to have wiped out ALL the many species
of Moa (giant and not-so-giant ostrich-like birds ) of New Zealand which
resulted in the extinction of the giant falcon that was their controlling
predator---- imagine, a falcon large enough and capable of killing a moa,
the macro-fauna of Australia, the macro-fauna of the Americas, (all camels,
horses, mastodons and mammoths, giant ground sloths, etc.), the elephant
birds of Madascar, etc.   MUCH more recently the African black rhino has
been reduced in only about 15 years to 1/10 OR LESS of it`s previous
population size and is in grave danger of extinction, I guess by your logic
it really needs some QUICK lessons in evolving or adaptiong to high power
rifle bullets, and also to evolve the immeadiate loss of it`s horns??

But I degress---you NEED to know that the reason that the Philodendron in
question is in BIG trouble is because of the clearing by man of NEARLY all
of the jungle along Brazil`s East coast, followed by perhaps some collecting
of the relict population, doomed anyway (unless WE help them) because even
the pollenating scrab beetles can no longer exist in the tiny remenants and
scraps of forest that are left.   Surely you will not consider that THIS is
a natural occurence that the plant would not or could not 'adapt' to???
Perhaps NOW you may understand my 'pave paradise' reference, as for all
intents and purposes man HAS made a giant parking lot out of what used to be
forest in E. Brazil!

>>To be sure, people are now able to intervene in evolution in both good
ways
and bad. We can make parking lots and we can artificially propagate cool
plants and animals and keep them going. From the comments I read about the
Philodendron spiritus-sancti it is not clear why it is such a rare plant.<<

See above.   This plant is rare because MAN wiped out the jungle and ALL the
plants that used to grow there !!!!!

>>Maybe it is because some preferred habitat is now a parking lot. Maybe it
is because the plant was being overwhelmed by more successful species and
is hanging naturally on the edge of extinction. Someone brought up the
Franklinia issue a day or so ago.The reason Franklinia was hanging by a
thread when rescued had nothing to do with loss of habitat then. There is
no lack of habitat for Franklinia to be reintroduced into the "wild"
today.<<

In the case of the Philodendron, it is the PARKING LOT syndrome, and WE can
do something about it.

>>The point is that species extinction is a really old thing and that for
the
vast majority of extinctions human parking lot building had absolutely no
role. That this is happening today is not a valid opposing argument.<<

Mass extinctions happened over geologic time, BUT most extinctions that have
taken place since recorded history HAVE been because of man`s abuse of
habitat!  This is a fact, and I would LOVE to hear your opinion on this.

>>I will now be silent on this topic unless people want to write me
off-list.<<

Come on Ted, this is so much fun, and all can learn a lot from it!   Write
an answer!

Julius

ju-bo@msn.com

ted.held@hstna.com








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