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Re: Arlan`s Unknown Philo. (bipinnatifidum?)

  • Subject: Re: Arlan`s Unknown Philo. (bipinnatifidum?)
  • From: brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:10:19 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Arlan,

Aloha.  It has been a long time since I heard a peep
from you.  I am glad that you are still lurking
around.

I have a plant that is very similar to this and I sent
Julius photos of this earlier.  It is of a plant
obtained in Brazil by my late friend, David Woolsey on
a trip that included an expedition into southern
Bahia...but I do not know if this was a collected or
cultivated plant.  If Julius doesn't forward photos to
you, I can do so via my wife's email separately.

My plant is a large growing species and I am waiting
for it to bloom so the inflorescence can be observed. 
David Woolsey's expedition took him along the Atlantic
Coastal Rainforest, from Rio de Janeiro, into Espirito
Santo, and to Bahia on the Sao Francisco drainage near
Andarai.  He stayed at Roberto Burle-Marx's sitio at
Guaratiba, so he could have obtained it there too.

At anyrate, this plant you are growing has the same
genetics as this taxon Julius and I are discussing.

Good to hear from you again.

Aloha,

Leland

--- a san juan <kalim1998@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks
> nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance
> to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the
> leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very
> pronounced tendency to CURL into itself.
> weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery
> leaves...
> 
> Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see
> darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
> 
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> brian lee <lbmkjm@yahoo.com> wrote: Dear Arlan,
> 
> Aloha.  That is definitely not Philodendron
> adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I
> sent
> you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
> description.  
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> Leland 
> --- a san juan  wrote:
> 
> > Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> > leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> > is identical from end to end....
> > 
> >
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > a san juan  wrote: No
> > problem....let me take a pic and post it....
> > 
> > Julius Boos  wrote: 
> > >From :  a san juan 
> > Reply-To :  Discussion of aroids 
> > Sent :  Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> > To :  aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> > Subject :  Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> > ex: Brazil
> > 
> > Dear Arlan,
> > 
> > This is good news!   Please send me a jpeg/photo
> of
> > a leaf of the plant in 
> > question!!
> > Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> > plants that grew from seed 
> > labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> > be 'something' close to 
> > P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> > adamantinium or P. 
> > saxicolum!   I just received a photo of one such
> > plant, and I will forward 
> > it to you after this.
> > Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> > the distance from  the 
> > BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> > the mid rib DECREASES as 
> > you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> > division up towards the 
> > petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is
> true
> > of any P. 
> > bipinnatifidium-type plant.   Check and tell me
> what
> > you see in YOUR plant 
> > ex: Brian Williams!
> > Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants
> grown
> > for seed of P. 
> > bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> > especially when compared to any 
> > plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> > reasoning being that 
> > presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here
> in
> > the U.S.A. are out of 
> > tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> > and so will show little or 
> > no differences to each other.   The plants from
> seed
> > SHOULD show differences 
> > as they are NOT genitically alike!
> > 
> > The Best,
> > 
> > Julius Boos
> > 
> > >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> > adamantinum" and it looks like 
> > >>it is growing as  such. It definitely is not a
> P.
> > bipinnatifidum at 
> > >>least.<<
> > 
> > Julius Boos  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >     >From : Julius Boos
> >     Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> >     Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> >     To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >     Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> > Amer. Co.
> > 
> > 
> >     Dear Friends,
> > 
> >     Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> > close to either solving OR
> >     giving up on this facet of my search for
> > accuracy in this matter. I have
> >     not received any replies from anyone with whom
> > Vic Soukup shared seeds, 
> > I
> >     can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> > forward with information.
> >     I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D.
> a
> > plant of any 
> > Meconostigma
> >     sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> > those of us who may STILL 
> > have
> >     plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent
> from
> > this Company. I could 
> > not
> >     do a comparison chart as I had  planned, my
> old
> > comp. (or my dumb brain)
> >     would not let it be.
> >     Google these species, there are GREAT photos
> out
> > there, Arlan San Juan 
> > and
> >     David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> >     SO---here goes--
> > 
> >     Philo. bipinnatifidium.
> > 
> >     This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> > seeds from Brazil, labeled 
> > as
> >     other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> > here. It is a HUGE 
> > species,
> >     but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> > sub-adult plants.
> >     Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> > divisions that are
> >     bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> > generally at least 6 cm. long. 
> > In
> >     juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes
> no
> > bipinnate/secondary
> >     divisions.
> >     Distances between the bottom of the sinuses
> (the
> > spaces between the
> >     divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting
> from
> > the tip of the leaf 
> > blade,
> >     and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> > petiole.
> >      Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> > structures surrounding the 
> > point
> >     where the petiole joins the rhizome or
> 'trunk')
> > are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> >     wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> > chessnut-red in color, easily
> >     detachable.
> >     Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> > 6.5 wide X 5 cm high, 
> > colored
> >     light gray, with dark gray margins.
> >     Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> >     (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> > resemble P. saxicolum, 
> > but at
> >     this stage will have NO visible
> rhizome/trunk).
> > 
> >     P. adamintinum.
> > 
> >     This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> > plants from 6 1/2"-13" 
> 
=== message truncated ===>
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