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RE: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #1105 - 14 msgs

  • Subject: [cg] RE: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #1105 - 14 msgs
  • From: Lori Kushner-Horan lkushner62@comcast.net
  • Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 21:31:26 -0400
  • Importance: Normal

I haven't had a digest since 7/24 ???

-----Original Message-----
From: community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
[mailto:community_garden-admin@mallorn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:56 PM
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
Subject: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #1105 - 14 msgs



Send community_garden mailing list submissions to
	community_garden@mallorn.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
	https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	community_garden-request@mallorn.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
	community_garden-admin@mallorn.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of community_garden digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Smoking / Burmuda Grass (David Smead)
  2. Re: Smoking / Burmuda Grass (Libby J. Goldstein)
  3. RE: Smoking / Burmuda Grass (Ben Swett)
  4. Re: Smoking / Burmuda Grass (papagenony@aol.com)
  5. community garden leadership (Jeremy Person)
  6. Re: Smoking / Burmuda Grass (Alliums)
  7. Smoking (Jeneva Storme)
  8. garden design question, community garden game (Shelly Collins)
  9. Re: Smoking/Tomato Virus (Sharon Gordon)
  10. Smoking & TMV (Libby J. Goldstein)
  11. Smoking in community gardens (Dr. H. Michael Simmons)
  12. Smokers in the Garden. (adam36055@aol.com)
  13. Tobacco in gardens (Hope Coulter)
  14. How dangerous is this tobacco ? (Hans H Harmsen)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:42:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: David Smead <smead@amplepower.com>
To: Kcmobirdie@aol.com
cc: community_garden@mallorn.com
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass

Greetings,

Tobacco use in a garden can spread tobacco virus to members of the Solanum
family, tomatoes, egplants, peppers, potatoes, etc.

--
Sincerely,

David Smead
http://www.amplepower.com


On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 Kcmobirdie@aol.com wrote:

> Dear gardeners,
>
> The Manheim Park community garden is working with 2 issues, and is
interested
> in your experiences:
>
> 1) Our garden has a severe burmuda grass invasion due to a previous
history
> of 8 - 10 years of the site being abandoned.  We have tried to cover from
> fall to spring, and have found it made no real difference in summer
growth.
> The raised beds are invaded to the point of being unfarmable in some
cases.
> We are trying to remain organic.
>
> 2) This year the issue of smoking has arisen.  A very strong willed
gardener
> wants the garden to be smoke-free, not only because of not wanting to be
> exposed to second-hand smoke, but also because she believes it is contrary
to
> have a space that promotes health with one that allows smoking.  I am
> bringing it to the group for a group decision, and am interested in how
other
> gardens handled this issue.  I am concerned about losing fledging
gardeners
> if we go completely non-smoking, and believe we can easily work out a
regime
> for noone to be exposed to second hand smoke.
>
>


--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:19:36 -0400
To: Kcmobirdie@aol.com
From: "Libby J. Goldstein" <libby@igc.org>
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass
Cc: community_garden@mallorn.com

Bermuda Grass: You might lose part of your season, but solarizing the
garden by covering with clear plastic in warm weather might actually
help kill the stuff. It's up to you and the gardeners whether you do
it at the beginning or the end of the season. Around here, people
tend to get a mite gardened out in Aug. & Sept. We'd probably try it
then.

Smoking: As a long time smoker, I really resent folk trying to make
the whole universe smoke-free. Why don't you see what else you can
work out. The intense anti-smoker probably still thinks that low fat,
high carb eating is healthy.

Libby
--
				Philadelphia, PA

                        USDA zone 7A    Sunset zone 32

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: ben@windowbox.com (Ben Swett)
To: "'Libby J. Goldstein'" <libby@igc.org>, <Kcmobirdie@aol.com>
Cc: <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Subject: RE: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:12:17 -0700
charset="us-ascii"

I'm not a smoker, but I respect the tobacco plant and any person using
any plant.

How about a "go to the downwind corner of the garden" policy?

Maybe the dispersive quality of outdoor air (pathogens, car exhaust and
all) make it one of those matters of personal choice to be indulged in
responsibly with respect for the neighbors, not something that needs
prohibition.

Being tolerant is part of the process.

Bothered by lima beans, but living with it,


Ben Swett
Windowbox.com

-----Original Message-----
From: community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
[mailto:community_garden-admin@mallorn.com] On Behalf Of Libby J.
Goldstein
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:20 PM
To: Kcmobirdie@aol.com
Cc: community_garden@mallorn.com
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass

Bermuda Grass: You might lose part of your season, but solarizing the
garden by covering with clear plastic in warm weather might actually
help kill the stuff. It's up to you and the gardeners whether you do
it at the beginning or the end of the season. Around here, people
tend to get a mite gardened out in Aug. & Sept. We'd probably try it
then.

Smoking: As a long time smoker, I really resent folk trying to make
the whole universe smoke-free. Why don't you see what else you can
work out. The intense anti-smoker probably still thinks that low fat,
high carb eating is healthy.

Libby
--
				Philadelphia, PA

                        USDA zone 7A    Sunset zone 32

______________________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org


To post an e-mail to the list:  community_garden@mallorn.com

To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden


--__--__--

Message: 4
From: PapagenoNY@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:52:51 EDT
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass
To: smead@amplepower.com, Kcmobirdie@aol.com
CC: community_garden@mallorn.com


--part1_85.1e96bedc.2a6e2d13_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hi

As far as smoke free is concerned, it is difficult and probably
inappropriate
to prevent gardeners from smoking based on the second hand smoke theory. We
have no such regulation prohibiting smoking in the Guilderland Community
Gardens here in upstate NY.
However, if one were to ban smoking, it should and could be based on the
fact
of virus related danger alluded to by David. This factor is well known and
substantiated.

My suggestion would be if you are to ban smoking based on the danger of the
virus, ban it only from the gardens proper. Perhaps make a smokers area
separate from the growing area.

Good luck on a sensitive issue.

Jerry Houser, Coordinator
Town of Guilderland
Community Gardens



In a message dated 7/22/02 7:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
smead@amplepower.com writes:


> Greetings,
>
> Tobacco use in a garden can spread tobacco virus to members of the Solanum
> family, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers, potatoes, etc.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> David Smead
>


From the Desk of  G. HOUSER



End of Message
Have a GREAT Day!

--part1_85.1e96bedc.2a6e2d13_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hi<BR>
<BR>
As far as smoke free is concerned, it is difficult and probably
inappropriate to prevent gardeners from smoking based on the second hand
smoke theory. We have no such regulation prohibiting smoking in the
Guilderland Community Gardens here in upstate NY. <BR>
However, if one were to ban smoking, it should and could be based on the
fact of virus related danger alluded to by David. This factor is well known
and substantiated.<BR>
<BR>
My suggestion would be if you are to ban smoking based on the danger of the
virus, ban it only from the gardens proper. Perhaps make a smokers area
separate from the growing area.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Good luck on a sensitive issue.<BR>
<BR>
Jerry Houser, Coordinator<BR>
Town of Guilderland<BR>
Community Gardens<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 7/22/02 7:45:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
smead@amplepower.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Greetings,<BR>
<BR>
Tobacco use in a garden can spread tobacco virus to members of the
Solanum<BR>
family, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers, potatoes, etc.<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Sincerely,<BR>
<BR>
David Smead<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=RIGHT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#400080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#80ffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>From the Desk
of&nbsp;</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#80ff80" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT
COLOR="#00ff00" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #008040" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">G. HOUSER</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#008000"
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans
MS" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<P ALIGN=LEFT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#400000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
End of Message<BR>
Have a GREAT Day!</P></P></FONT></HTML>

--part1_85.1e96bedc.2a6e2d13_boundary--

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Jeremy Person" <jeremy.person@verizon.net>
To: "ACGA listserve" <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:47:03 -0700
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C231C9.512D3560"
Subject: [cg] community garden leadership

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hello ACGA members!

in response to the recent barrage of questions regarding starting up a =
community garden, i have posted my research paper (a minor paper) on =
community garden leadership.  some of you asked me to post this months =
ago, however my ftp server was acting up, so here it is now.  thanks =
again to those of you who took time out of your schedules to help me out =
- i learned a lot and the presentation inspired interest in community =
gardens in my classmates.  i hope that this paper may lead those of you =
looking for guidance in the right direction.

the web address for the paper is =
www.csupomona.edu/~jlperson/la576/cg_leadership.htm

if you have any problems with accessing the site, or want a MS Word =
version, just e-mail me and i can send you one.
Hope the convention goes well - wish i could be there - maybe next year.

jeremy person
jeremy.person@verizon.net


------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C231C9.512D3560
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hello ACGA members!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>in response to the recent barrage of =
questions=20
regarding starting up a community garden, i have posted my research =
paper (a=20
minor paper) on community garden leadership.&nbsp;&nbsp;some of you =
asked me to=20
post this&nbsp;months ago, however my ftp server was acting up, so here =
it is=20
now.&nbsp; thanks again to those of you who took time out of your =
schedules to=20
help me out - i learned a lot and the presentation inspired interest in=20
community gardens in my classmates.&nbsp; i hope that this paper may =
lead those=20
of you looking for guidance in the right direction.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the web address for the paper is <A=20
href=3D"http://www.csupomona.edu/~jlperson/la576/cg_leadership.htm";>www.c=
supomona.edu/~jlperson/la576/cg_leadership.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>if you have any problems with accessing =
the site,=20
or want a MS Word version, just e-mail me and i can send you =
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope the convention goes well - wish i =
could be=20
there - maybe next year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>jeremy person</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jeremy.person@verizon.net";>jeremy.person@verizon.net</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C231C9.512D3560--


--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:42:50 -0400
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
From: Alliums <garlicgrower@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking / Burmuda Grass
er.com>


>David wrote:
>
>Tobacco use in a garden can spread tobacco virus to members of the Solanum
>family, tomatoes, egplants, peppers, potatoes, etc.

This is the reason we don't allow smoking at my community garden --
especially because I grow out rare Solanums for Seed Savers Exchange.  Many
of the things I grow AREN'T resistant to tobacco mosaic virus (or we don't
know and I really don't want to lose rare plants finding out) so a smoker
could wipe out significant crops and we'd lose the seed.

If folks are growing heirloom tomatoes, they have a legitimate reason to
ask others not to smoke around growing areas.  If you *must* have a place
for folks to smoke, make sure that it is downwind of crop areas and
preferably with a nice hedge or tall flowering plants around it that will
keep the smoke out of growing areas.

I second solarizing the Bermuda grass -- use this nasty heat and humidity
to your advantage!


Dorene Pasekoff, Coordinator
St. John's United Church of Christ Organic Community Garden

A mission of
St. John's United Church of Christ, 315 Gay Street, Phoenixville, PA  19460



--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:49:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeneva Storme <jenevastorme@yahoo.ca>
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
Subject: [cg] Smoking

2) This year the issue of smoking has arisen.  A very
strong willed gardener wants the garden to be
smoke-free, not only because of not wanting to be
exposed to second-hand smoke, but also because she
believes it is contrary to have a space that promotes
health with one that allows smoking.  I am bringing it
to the group for a group decision, and am interested
in how other gardens handled this issue.  I am
concerned about losing fledging gardeners if we go
completely non-smoking, and believe we can easily work
out a regime for noone to be exposed to second hand
smoke.
============================

One way to discourage smoking may be to point out to
gardeners that all members of the nightshade family --
tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, potatoes -- are related
to tobacco, and some, if not all, are susceptible to
the tobacco mosaic virus, which can be transmitted
through tobacco smoke and ashes.  So, it's not only
the health of the gardeners that is at stake here, but
the health of the garden itself.  Just a thought, good
luck with your campaign.

Shade and Sweet Water,
Jeneva Storme

=====
Greening West Broadway Coordinator
"Neighbourhood Solutions for Community Change"

West Broadway Development Corporation
640 Broadway, Winnipeg, MB  R3C 0X3
phone: 774-3534  fax: 779-2203
website: http://www.westbroadway.mb.ca

______________________________________________________________________
Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Shelly Collins" <tgrows@toledogarden.org>
To: <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:11:47 -0400
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C2324A.7FF18AA0"
Subject: [cg] garden design question, community garden game

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Hi Jen & all,
The Community Garden Game developed by my associate Patrice =
Powers-Barker from OSU Extension, is a lot of fun and can help introduce =
participants to the joys & challenges of community gardening, as well as =
serve as a brainstorming session for garden design.  We introduced the =
game at last years ACGA conference and use it annually with new gardens =
at our garden development workshop.  It is available here:  =
http://lucas.osu.edu/hort/cggame.htm

Purpose/Objective:  To give participants the opportunity to work =
together to problem solve issues related to community gardening.  =
Setting:  Table large enough for 6-12 participants to gather and work =
around.=20

Highly recommended!!

We are stardust  .  .  . we are golden  .  .  . and we've got to get =
ourselves back to the garden.=20

Shelly Collins
Toledo GROWs Manager
Toledo Botanical Garden
5403 Elmer Drive
Toledo, Ohio  43615
419-936-2990
tgrows@toledogarden.org

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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT size=3D2>Hi Jen &amp;=20
all,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>The Community Garden Game =
developed by my=20
associate Patrice Powers-Barker from OSU Extension, is a lot of fun and =
can help=20
introduce participants to the joys &amp; challenges of community =
gardening, as=20
well as serve as a brainstorming session for garden design.&nbsp; We =
introduced=20
the game at last years ACGA conference and use it annually with new =
gardens at=20
our garden development workshop.&nbsp; It is available here:&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"http://lucas.osu.edu/hort/cggame.htm";>http://lucas.osu.edu/hort/c=
ggame.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT =
size=3D2>Purpose/Objective:&nbsp;=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">To give participants =
the=20
opportunity to work together to problem solve issues related to =
community=20
gardening.&nbsp;</FONT> </FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
size=3D2>Setting:&nbsp;=20
</FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Table large enough =
for 6-12=20
participants to gather and work around.</FONT> </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT size=3D2>Highly =
recommended!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft></FONT><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>We are =
stardust&nbsp;=20
.&nbsp; .&nbsp; . we are golden&nbsp; .&nbsp; .&nbsp; . and we've got to =
get=20
ourselves back to the garden. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Shelly Collins<BR>Toledo =
GROWs=20
Manager<BR>Toledo Botanical Garden<BR>5403 Elmer Drive<BR>Toledo, =
Ohio&nbsp;=20
43615<BR>419-936-2990<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:tgrows@toledogarden.org";>tgrows@toledogarden.org</A></FONT=
></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Sharon Gordon" <gordonse@one.net>
To: <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Subject: Re: [cg] Smoking/Tomato Virus
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:02:26 -0400
charset="iso-8859-1"

In addition to having people not smoke or use any other tobacco products in
the garden, it's important for people who do smoke to wash their hands
before working in the garden to avoid transmitting diseases to tomatoes,
peppers, eggplant, and other nightshade family members.

If there are a lot of people with the nicotine addiction who want to garden,
it might be possible to set up a garden at a separate site which was far
from any other garden which could be damaged.  Then any gardeners who wanted
to grow tomatoes, etc and also use tobacco could make a point to stick to
the virus resistant varieties.  Even this might not always work as sometimes
the resistance only holds out for part of the season.  If they are seed
savers they may also be able to develop more resistant varieties over the
years with the continued exposure to the viruses.

Sharon
gordonse@one.net


--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:22:35 -0400
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
From: "Libby J. Goldstein" <libby@igc.org>
Subject: [cg] Smoking & TMV

Actually tobacco mosaic virus isn't spread by tobacco smoke, but
rather by unwashed smokers' hands.

I do not select the varieties of nightshades that I grow for TMV
resistance/tolerance; still, in 27 years, I've never had a TMV
problem. I do, however, wash my hands if I've been smoking and want
to work on my tomatoes, etc.

Libby
--
				Philadelphia, PA

                        USDA zone 7A    Sunset zone 32

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 06:16:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dr. H. Michael Simmons" <simmonsm@bloomington.in.us>
To: <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Subject: [cg] Smoking in community gardens

We prohibit smoking in all of our gardens, not only because of the dangers
of TMV, the possibility of fire in the mulched paths, and the
unsightliness of cigarette butts in the garden, but also and principally
because smoking is an unhealthy and annoying activity which is
incompatible with recreational community gardening.  We owe it to our
participants to provide a comfortable and healthful environment in which
to garden.  We have never had a complaint about our policy, and all of our
gardens are on public land.

H. Michael Simmons
Garden Administrator
Bloomington Parks and Recreation
Bloomington, IN










































































































































































































































--__--__--

Message: 12
From: Adam36055@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:33:04 EDT
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
Subject: [cg] Smokers in the Garden.

Friends,

This is a non-smoker speaking.  And while many of my friends, including our
legendary Clinton Community Garden volunteer, John Carney was a smoker and
died of lung cancer, I think that banning smoking from heavily used, urban
community gardens is balderdash.

Perhaps this  may be a bias from my days in the bar business, but I like
smokers.  They tend to have a sense of humor, an acceptance of their own
mortality and tip better.  Mallory Jacobsen, who was for many, many years
the
strong personality at the Clinton Community Garden and instrumental in the
creation of  our  ethos of service and accessibilty to community, was a
smoker.  While many of our gardeners are non-smokers, many still do and have
the grace not to blow smoke on the tomato plants.  One of our best
volunteers
has a two pack a day habit.


In our 150 x 100 garden in midtown Manhattan, with 3,500 + members, we had
enough of a hard time getting rid of the junkies, crack-heads, winos and
vandals and creating a welcoming space . While it has been suggested by
passive users of the space and carrot wielding authoritarian types in our
gardening, but not hard core volunteer base - a smoking ban has been
shrugged
off, mainly by non-smokers.

In context: Beating  people up for using a legal product which they can also
use in every NYC Park. ain't the way to go if you want to be taken seriously
in another public space.  Non-smoking offices, restaurants and alas, bars
has
a reasonable rationale.

We are a safe haven for seniors, many of whom smoke.  We have Fountain
House,
a clubhouse for mentally ill people on our block whose members smoke and for
whom our garden is a haven. Our grape arbor even has an ash tray to
accomodate them.

Those are the smoking politics of the Clinton Community Garden within the
neighborhood that it serves.

Note: Some of our best gardeners and volunteers stopped smoking because they
first came to the garden and found the act of gardening therapeutic. When
they got all Taliban about smokers, I asked them if they would have become
gardeners if they had been told told to take their "nasty butts out of here"
when they first checked-in to our little slice of pardise.?

To a gardener, they said no - it was the gradual changing of the lifestyle
that made them non-smokers.

Many folks smoke because they have idle, nervous hands. Give 'em a trowel

and ask 'em to rinse off their hands when their working near tomatoes!)

Best wishes,
Adam Honigman


--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Hope Coulter" <arhunger@flash.net>
To: "Community Garden List-Serve" <community_garden@mallorn.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:31:37 -0500
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C23305.AC1C8B00"
Subject: [cg] Tobacco in gardens

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My interest in vegetable gardening comes mostly from doing it as a child =
alongside my father, a pipe smoker.  He always enlisted me to pull the =
suckers off his tomato plants and explained it was because he handled =
the tobacco and might transmit a disease to them.  Doing this task made =
me feel important--there was something I was needed to do that he =
couldn't do!--and helped me take ownership in those tomatoes.

I'm grown now, he still smokes, and he has no child at home to do this =
for him, by the way, but he still raises delicious tomatoes every year.  =
So it's not like they keel over at the slightest touch of a smoker's =
hands.

I'm with Adam.  Tolerance and cheer will serve the garden best.

Hope Coulter
Arkansas Hunger Coalition

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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>My interest in vegetable gardening comes mostly from doing it as a=20
child&nbsp;alongside my father, a pipe smoker.&nbsp; He always enlisted =
me to=20
pull the suckers off his tomato plants and explained it was because he =
handled=20
the tobacco and might transmit a disease to them.&nbsp; Doing this task =
made me=20
feel important--there was something I was needed to do that he couldn't =
do!--and=20
helped me take ownership in those tomatoes.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm grown now, he still&nbsp;smokes,&nbsp;and he has no child at =
home to do=20
this for him, by the way, but he still raises delicious tomatoes every=20
year.&nbsp; So it's not like they keel over at the slightest touch of a =
smoker's=20
hands.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm with Adam.&nbsp; Tolerance and cheer will serve the garden =
best.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hope Coulter</DIV>
<DIV>Arkansas Hunger Coalition</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C23305.AC1C8B00--


--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:48:34 +1200
To: community_garden@mallorn.com
From: Hans H Harmsen <plenneke@xtra.co.nz>
boundary="=====================_3136903==_.ALT"
Subject: [cg] How dangerous is this tobacco ?

--=====================_3136903==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Dear folks,
I have been following the discussion about smoking in community gardens.
Where is the proof, that the use of tobacco is likely to infect other
related plants ?
I would be interested, if one of you all could find me an article on this
aspect of the subject.
As I do practical research with what worms can and cannot do for our
environment, I would like to do some experimenting with tobacco, used and
unused.
I am not suggesting, to buy all my worms a packet of cigarettes naturally,
but it would be interesting to know, if nicotine in any form is detrimental
to the worms.
Any butts I can have ?
 From one of my friends, I cannot obtain them any more, and we are both
putting pressure on her husband, to give up the habit, but without much
success, despite the fact, that he spent 7 weeks around the hospital going
to the oncology department daily.
He has no cancercells now, but it was a close go.
Our local school had a campaign for a while, warning the young pupils,
never to take up smoking, It made sense, but I have not seen it lately,
Putting the pressure onto the smoker to stop, may NOT be the right
approach, as it tends to make them more determined to keep doing it.
All in all, As a non smoker, I agree with Adam, let them if they want to,
but make them wash their hands before handling the plants in the garden, it
may make them think about what they are doing, imagine being asked to wash
your hands on a cold frosty morning, just because you have been smoking !

--Sincerely Yours :
Hans H.Harmsen,
E-Mail : plenneke@xtra.co.nz
Website : http://www.gronouwe.co.nz

--=====================_3136903==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Dear folks,<br>
I have been following the discussion about smoking in community
gardens.<br>
Where is the proof, that the use of tobacco is likely to infect other
related plants ?<br>
I would be interested, if one of you all could find me an article on this
aspect of the subject.<br>
As I do practical research with what worms can and cannot do for our
environment, I would like to do some experimenting with tobacco, used and
unused.<br>
I am not suggesting, to buy all my worms a packet of cigarettes
naturally, but it would be interesting to know, if nicotine in any form
is detrimental to the worms.<br>
Any butts I can have ?<br>
 From one of my friends, I cannot obtain them any more, and we are both
putting pressure on her husband, to give up the habit, but without much
success, despite the fact, that he spent 7 weeks around the hospital
going to the oncology department daily.<br>
He has no cancercells now, but it was a close go.<br>
Our local school had a campaign for a while, warning the young pupils,
never to take up smoking, It made sense, but I have not seen it lately,
Putting the pressure onto the smoker to stop, may NOT be the right
approach, as it tends to make them more determined to keep doing
it.<br>
All in all, As a non smoker, I agree with Adam, let them if they want to,
but make them wash their hands before handling the plants in the garden,
it may make them think about what they are doing, imagine being asked to
wash your hands on a cold frosty morning, just because you have been
smoking !<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
--Sincerely Yours :<br>
Hans H.Harmsen,<br>
E-Mail : <font color="#0000FF">plenneke@xtra.co.nz<br>
</font>Website :
<a href="http://www.gronouwe.co.nz/"; eudora="autourl"><font
color="#0000FF">http://www.gronouwe.co.nz</a><br>
</font></html>

--=====================_3136903==_.ALT--




--__--__--

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______________________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org


To post an e-mail to the list:  community_garden@mallorn.com

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