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Re: I 'Blue Girl' was Ilex opaca

The Blue Girl that is doing so well is in shade and is wider than tall,
something like 3-4 ft tall and 4-5 ft wide.  Reasonably dense.  The one in
sun and not doing as well tends to send out a few wildly long shoots, but it
is sort of pinned in between BS and a short Tsuga.

Thanks for the extremely detailed inf ot on moving and cuttings.  I've
printed them out and will reread before doing anything to it.

neIN, Z5
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt@hort.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] I 'Blue Girl' was Ilex opaca

> Kitty,
> I have moved elderly I. crenata  - found them hard to dig - but as I
> don't grow the blue series, have no experience with them.  Think it
> would depend on how large the plant was because that would relate to
> the size rootball you'd need to take in order to not stress it so
> much you kill it.  The other issue there is just how much rootball
> you'd be able to get if it's intermingled with the BS...spruce have a
> tough, spreading root system I found out recently when I dug one
> out...so the spruce roots could be really intertwined with the
> holly's by now.  Can you even get in there to dig a decent ball?
> Galle notes that he's moved 8-12' trees and they had 5-6' wide
> rootballs.  He pruned them back pretty hard.
> Hollies are not always easy from cuttings, I understand.  Depends on
> the species; some are also very easy (I. crenata will root where
> stems touch soil).  Galle says that 'Blue Girl' is a hybrid of I.
> rugosa 'Long Island' x I. aquifolium 'Lawrence White'.    Now, he
> also says that some cvs of I. aquifolium are hard to root and some
> are not, but does not specify which.  It appears that 'Lawrence
> White' was of unknown parentage and it's likely that plants are no
> longer available...helpful..NOT.  He does not mention I. rugosa in
> his lists of easy and hard to root species.
> Looks like, from what he says, that you'd need to try rooting in an
> enclosed environment as he keeps talking about 'under mist'.   For
> most, it appears that the best time to take cuttings is when new
> growth from the current season is beginning to firm up, which cold be
> from June to late Jan. or Feb; depending.  Avg. cutting length is
> 6-8" tho' they can be longer or shorter...even up to 8-12" but they
> take up more space and it's harder to keep the medium moisture right.
> Leaves on the bottom third to half should be removed.  Wounding the
> base near the end of the cutting helps induce root formation.  The
> wound - 1/2 to 3/4" long can be single, double or done on 2 sides.
> It can be made with the thumb when removing lower leaves or by
> cutting off a thin slice of outer bark and cambium to just expose the
> white inner wood.
> Reduce leaf surface on larger leaf forms by cutting the leaves in
> half.
> Galle further says that for difficult plants, such as I. aquifolium,
> cuttings of juvenile growth are preferred.  In those instances,
> mature plans are cut back to induce new growth called water sprouts.
> He also says using rooting hormone is important.   IBA 8000-20,000
> ppm is necessary to get some species to root.  Easy to root types can
> use 1000- 3000 IBA.  Boron at 50 to 200 ppm + IBA has increased
> quality of rooting in cuttings of I. aquifolium.
> Standard rooting medium is 2 parts fine pine bark; 1 part peat & 1
> part perlite by volume.  If enclosed or under mist, using equal parts
> bark and sand or peat and sand helps keep the mix from getting soggy.
> Rooting requires 6-8 weeks.
> Personally, I'd try to root some cuttings before I dug up that plant
> to move it...just for safety.  If you're serious about wanting to
> move it, then I'd root prune it this spring and dig it next
> spring...if you can get in there to do a good root prune job -
> digging a trench around an inner root ball 2 spit deep and filling it
> with something like compost or mulch - then you should be able to get
> in to dig the plant out the next year (a few friends - extra muscle -
> wouldn't hurt).  I'd also prune it back this year, too.
> The fact that your hidden one has done well seems to reinforce the
> need for some shelter from the elements in your neck of the woods.
> I am most interested to find the Blue series seems to grow well in
> shade.  Did not know that and may just have to whiz out and get one.
> The form on these is more rounded than pointed, is it not?  Or am I
> dreaming again?
> My 'Nellie Stevens' are getting very open in the shade as do the
> native I. opacas...I'd like to find one that kept a tighter form in
> shade...does your Blue Girl?
> Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> mtalt@hort.net
> Editor:  Gardening in Shade
> Shadyside Garden Designs
> -----------------------------------------------
> Current Article: Plant Exchange
> http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening
> ------------------------------------------------
> Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date
> http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html
> ----------
> > From: kmrsy@comcast.net
> >
> > Marge wrote > I have 3 of those growing in too much shade <
> >
> > OK - now a new question. I have a Ilex x meserveae 'Blue Girl" that
> I
> > planted as a little shrubling next to a little 2 foot Blue Spruce
> about
> > 15 years ago. Behind it to the south is a chain link fence on the
> other
> > side of which a Neighbor has a huge Thuja. The poor thing is almost
> > buried in there, but has thrived and is an outstanding example IMO.
> It
> > has prevented BS growth where they meet but as the BS gets bigger
> toward
> > the front, I am seeing less and less of the holly. Might be nice to
> move
> > it.
> >
> >
> > But 15 years is a long time. Do you think it could be moved safely?
> What
> > about taking cuttings first? Do Ilex take well from cuttings? -
> soft or
> > hard? when?
> >
> >
> > Thinking more about the exposure problems mentioned....This hidden
> one
> > has thrived while the other two haven't. One is on the other side
> of the
> > spruce and also getting crowded, but is up against other problems.
> The
> > one that was set further to the north in a triangle of the 3 never
> did
> > well at all - I think that was the Blue Boy. It was by itself and
> had
> > full sun and wind exposure. I yanked it a few years ago. I wonder
> if I'd
> > just kill the good one by moving it.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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