Re: I feel good
gardenchat@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: I feel good
  • From: j* s* <i*@q.com>
  • Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:14:43 -0800
I had a similar problem with a piece of property south of Sacramento. Finally hired a guy with a backhoe to dig a 5-foot trench wherever I wanted to plant something. We had a power posthole digger, too, and it wasn't handheld--but it just bounced off that stuff.
On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Johnson, Cyndi D Civ USAF AFMC 95 CS/ SCOSI wrote: 


Riverside? Is it at University of CA Riverside? I haven't been to that
one but I'm not aware of any other so I'd be interested to know the
name. There's one near San Diego I'd like to visit too.
We used to own a rental house where the caliche layer was about 18" down 
in one corner of the property. We were attempting to put in a fence
around the backyard. What a PITA! We had a powered auger to dig the
postholes but it was hand-held. The two of us had that thing on max
power with our full weight on it, but finally gave up on the last two
holes, it's just like cutting through rock. I don't remember what we
ended up doing to secure the posts.

Cyndi


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On
Behalf Of BONNIE_HOLMES
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 4:18 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] I feel good

No, the hard clay isn't as bad as caliche, which we also have in this
area but I don't have it. It is almost impossible to get that soil
improved even though we have lots of moisture . Around here we use that type of soil for pond liners. I have visited some native gardens in your 
area, definitely arid. But, occasionally you can see beautiful gardens
made of native plants. Riverside has a nice one.


ETN Zone 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cyndi D Civ USAF AFMC 95 CS/SCOSI Johnson"
<cyndi.johnson@edwards.af.mil>
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 6:44:17 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [CHAT] I feel good

They call that layer "caliche" here. It's common in the desert, but if
we have it, it's pretty far down, we've had to dig some trenches for
electrical and plumbing and haven't run into it.
I'm in the Antelope Valley in southern California - high desert. It's
dry.

Cyndi


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On
Behalf Of BONNIE_HOLMES
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:06 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] I feel good
Could it be that you have strips of hardpan underneath? My soil greatly 
varies. In some spots, it is pretty good, others a light clay and ok,
and in a few spots hard clay. When I prepared beds in the hard clay, I
would dig down as deep as the shovel and bury kitchen mulch. In a year, 
the soil would be pretty good. Where are you?


ETN Zone 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cyndi D Civ USAF AFMC 95 CS/SCOSI Johnson"
<cyndi.johnson@edwards.af.mil>
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:01:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [CHAT] I feel good

Hmmm all good points. I didn't rototill last year at all and I don't
remember doing much the year before that either. I wish I had seen more of a gradation between the mulch level and the soil, it just didn't look 


like much of the mulch was migrating downward. Things just do not rot
here without mega-gallons of water. If I put cardboard on the ground
right now with grass clippings on top, and we got our normal expected
rainfall, next summer I would see a layer of mostly withered grass with 
perfectly usable cardboard underneath it.
On the plus side since all that veg garden mulch is sopping wet now, it 
may actually start to break down. Woohoo!
Maybe I'll just bury the irrigation farther down this summer. That would 


get water down past the mulch into the root zone and avoid stirring up
weed seeds. Although the wind we get during the year does a really good 
job of spreading stuff around so it's not like there will be any
shortage of weeds anyway.
Oh well every place has its challenges.

Cyndi


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On
Behalf Of BONNIE_HOLMES
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:30 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] I feel good
Not only do you do that but you also expose lots of buried weed seed to light which makes weeding much more difficult. The last class I attended
recommended that you cut off the plants at the point where no growth can
occur and allow the remaining with roots become part of the soil. I use newspaper, straw and have even used cardboard. It is great to keep down 
winter opportunist weed when you have large pieces of it. By spring it
has disintegrated.


ETN Zone 7

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tricia" <pdickson@sbcglobal.net>
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:15:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [CHAT] I feel good

Cyndi,
I am not big on rototilling because of a talk I heard once by a soil
conservationist. He talked about how if you rototill or plow to the same 



depth all the time you make a hard pan that the moisture and roots can
not
penetrate. I am a big mulcher with newspapers and straw or grass
clippings
is my favorite. The worms come and work the soil for you.
Just my 2 cents!
Tricia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johnson, Cyndi D Civ USAF AFMC 95 CS/SCOSI"
<cyndi.johnson@edwards.af.mil>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: [CHAT] I feel good



The friend I go hiking with was in a car accident Saturday after she

hit

some black ice on a canyon road. Fractured a vertebrae, not good. So

my

weekend wasn't as happy as it could have been, but I did enjoy

grubbing

in the dirt both days. It was a great weekend weatherwise. No wind

plus

sunshine, t-shirt weather! I worked outside clearing what was left of
old tomato and basil plants in the vegetable garden and cutting back
rabbitbrush in the dry garden. Husband dug up some old non-productive
grapevines, they were some kind of wine grape, and we bought new
Thompson Seedless and Flame to replace them. I looked for bare-root
fruit trees but the local selection was pathetic. We've been checking
since New Year's but I guess the home centers just don't get enough
demand for them. I did buy a Tilton apricot and I'll call the only

real

nursery in town today to see if they have anything. Otherwise I'll

have

to mail-order a pomegranate, a couple peach trees, and maybe a pear.
I pruned my dwarf nectarine and some rosebushes too, but being as I

was

too lazy to go get my gloves I am all scabbed up, you'd think I'd

learn.


While digging in the veg garden I was noticing the soil. I have been
dumping spoiled hay and sheep manure in there for years. We received
about 4" of rain over the last few days. I dug down about 18" and the
top few inches, all mulch, is sopping wet. The rest of the soil is

dry.

Not summer dry but not real moist either. In the "unimproved" areas

like
where I planted the fruit tree, the water penetrated way down, farther
than I could dig. Hmmm, I'm thinking more rototilling is in my future. 





Cyndi


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On
Behalf Of Kitty
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:59 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: [CHAT] I feel good

Fifty two lovely degrees today and the sun even came out for a few
minutes.
I washed the car, checked on some plants, generally puttered around
outside
in just a sweatshirt. Feels good to get outside.
High tomorrow will be 33

Kitty
neIN, Zone 5

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Inland Jim
Willamette Valley

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