Re: Re: infor

Not to be too hard on your father, (it is his day, after all) but I wonder
if he bothered to read the label, or just relied on the WM people.

Kitty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tchessie" <tchessie@comcast.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Re: [CHAT] infor


> And then there are people like my father, whose understanding of plants is
> amazingly poor (he asked my what was wrong with the tomatos I planted for
> him week after I planted them because they had little yellow flowers and
no
> tomatos!).  I talked to him yesterday and he asked what I did about worms
on
> the tomato plants- I told his take them off and squish them (I do 100%
> organic).  He says, oh, the people at WALMART told me to us Sevin and that
> worked.  I told him of course it killed the worms and most everyother bug
> around.  Then, he tells me that his tomatos taste good. Yes, folks, he
> sprayed with Sevin and then went out the next day, picked and ate one.  I
> suggested that if the spray killed bugs, it likely wasn't too healthy for
> him.  His response- "the Walmart people didn't say anything about that".
I
> not so gently suggested that the "Walmart people" likely weren't a
reliable
> source of information on anything, much less poison.
>
> Theresa
> Sac, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]On
> Behalf Of Kitty
> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:13 PM
> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
>
> Pam,
> You must realize you are an exception.  Most people will not spend 16
hours
> a day watering their plants.  Many people will not live with plants with
> holes in the leaves if there is a way to prevent it, organic or not.  When
I
> said not feasible, I meant not feasible for the general population; I
wasn't
> referring to myself.  I'm content to live with some destruction, others
> won't or can't.  Right now I've got a bug here I found on one of my lilies
> last year.  There was just one last year.  I posted pictures, also showed
to
> our Hort Ed.  While trying to get an ID, it destroyed the plant.  This
year
> I found 4 of them on a Deutzia.  Snipped the whole stem, bagged it and
took
> it in to CES.  He said possibly lacebug, but I'm not so sure.  Just found
2
> more on another lily. This bug will not go away with a shot of water, he
> needs stronger measures and I'm not about to let him go crazy on my
lilies.
> Without an ID, though, it's hard to know what to use.
>
> Anyway, back to straight organic.  I don't know if you have Japanese
Beetles
> there, but nothing organic is going to stop them.  You can try Milky
Spore,
> but once the grubs die off there's nothing for MS to feed on and it goes
> away.  Even if it did persist, they'll just wing it over to your nice
plants
> from your neighbor's untreated yard.
>
> I firmly believe in IPM and use even less than that warrants.  I'm fairly
> close to organic, including my fertilizers.  But most people won't spend
$30
> / bag to cover 2000 sq ft of lawn.  Shoot, my neighbor won't spend $5.
>
> For the activist, all organic is possible.  For the perectionist it is not
> feasible.  For the the general population of gardeners out there who have
a
> garden as one of their many pastimes, who enjoy puttering in their garden
> occasionally, who maybe just are determined that their landscape be
> presentable, but have no intention of reading up on organic methods, it
> isn't going to happen.
>
> Ortho does too good a job marketing their chemicals.  People who just want
> the problem to go away are quick to grab "Bug-B-Gone"  I've not read the
> label, but just the thought that they want every bug to be gone scares me
> because I know it must detrimentally affect the good bug population as
well.
> But not everyone has the level of interest that many of us share on this
> list.  So many people have no more than an hour or 2 a week to deal with
> their landscape and it is not realistic to expect that they will strive
for
> the organic solution.
>
> Kitty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
>
> > Not feasible where darlin'?? I've been all organic since I started the
> > bird/butterfly sanctuary 5-6 years ago and was 80% organic before. It
> > works here at least. Joanne across the street does the same. Is it
> > different there?
> >
> >
> > Pam Evans
> > Kemp, TX
> > zone 8A
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kitty
> > Sent: 6/19/2004 9:19:43 AM
> > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] infor
> >
> > > Ceres,
> >
> > > I have used Merit a couple of times with good results to protect my
> birch
> >
> > > tree from Japanese Beetles.  I don't know how much bee activity there
> would
> >
> > > be around birch catkins. Merit had been suggested by our Hort Ed as a
> safer
> >
> > > product than those previously used, but no product of this sort is
> >
> > > completely safe.  I was concerned about the affect to soil organisms
in
> my
> >
> > > application.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I've been on amessage board where, when the subject of Merit was
raised,
> >
> > > folks came out vehemently against it for all sorts of reasons.  But
the
> >
> > > objections came from people that I would guess to be totally organic
> types.
> >
> > > In a better world everything would be organic, but with what we have
> today,
> >
> > > it's not feasible.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I no longer use Merit but this is mainly because I am a lazy gardener
> and I
> >
> > > don't resort to insecticides unless absolutely necessary.  Japanese
> Beetles
> >
> > > seem to have declined in number in the past few years, but that is
> probably
> >
> > > cyclical.  In a couple more years I may have to resort to such
measures
> >
> > > again.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Kitty
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > From: <Cersgarden@aol.com>
> >
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:38 AM
> >
> > > Subject: [CHAT] infor
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > I am a lurker on an iris list.  I am sending a message copied from
it.
> >
> > > What
> >
> > > > are your thoughts?  I have never used this product nor have I
> researched
> >
> > > the
> >
> > > > use of.  The writer seems to be a very knowledgeable member of this
> list.
> >
> > > >     Ceres
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Generally systemic insecticides are considered to be reasonably safe
> to
> >
> > > > pollinators since they don't get excessive exposure via the pollen
or
> >
> > > > nectar, but Merit may be a bit different. The active ingredient
> >
> > > > (imidacloprid) has two actions. One, at higher doses, is lethal to
> >
> > > insects.
> >
> > > > At lower doses it can affect behavior without directly killing the
> insect,
> >
> > > > such as stopping aphids from feeding. It is the behavioral effects
> that
> >
> > > are
> >
> > > > of concern regarding bees since it is claimed that imidacloprid can
> >
> > > disrupt
> >
> > > > foraging activities.-- in fact some of it's uses were banned in
France
> >
> > > > because of complaints from beekeepers. Bayer (who make it) deny
these
> >
> > > > claims based on what seems like good research, and there haven't
been
> many
> >
> > > > complaints about its impact on bees in the US as far as I know. This
> is
> >
> > > all
> >
> > > > complicated by the fact that bee populations in the US have been
> decimated
> >
> > > > by Varroa mites, and if colonies do decline, it could well be mites
> that
> >
> > > > are causing it. So, as usual, the situation is murky, and it depends
> who
> >
> > > > you believe. There are some interesting websites on this if anyone
is
> >
> > > > interested in digging deeper. I have a couple of research projects
at
> the
> >
> > > > moment on this compound and its effects on insects, so the area is
of
> some
> >
> > > > interest to me and all of this may be more than you wanted to know!.
> Bob
> >
> > > > Hollingworth.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
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