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RE: WAY OT/political

Andrea: I think that at some point, you have to come to know thine own
self as it has been said...what values do you hold dear? Independent of
what your parents may or may not believe, what do you believe? It takes
a person willing to do some personal discriminating in order to make a
responsible voter. But most importantly, you must formulate a vision of
the world that you want to live in and then be the agent of change that
turns that vision into a reality. Grass roots political involvement at
your local governmental level is an excellent way to start.

Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."    
--Albert Einstein

 --- On Tue 05/18, Andrea H < hodgesaa@earthlink.net > wrote:
From: Andrea H [mailto: hodgesaa@earthlink.net]
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:32:10 -0400
Subject: [CHAT] WAY OT/political

My question is, who do you choose as the lesser of the evils? I echo
David<br>in that I know this is a garden chat group, but after listening
to all of<br>you for several years, and finding so many different
opinions very eye<br>opening, I don't know which way to go anymore. I
was raised by a right-wing<br>liberal hating father (who I dearly love,
just don't agree with) who<br>seriously believes that liberals are the
reason that the US is riddled with<br>crime, too many homeless, too many
mentally ill on the streets, etc. He<br>blames it all on the liberals. I
find that hard to believe. I haven't made<br>up my mind exactly WHAT I
agree on yet, but at least I know that thinking<br>for myself is the
most important thing, and not feeling like I have to<br>follow the
"collective thinking" of one group (or person in a group) or<br>another.
I can agree with certain things from both sides. Now, again,
I'm<br>certainly not impressed with Bush. The man is not a very bright
fellow in<br>most things. BUT, I'm not impressed with Kerry either. But
as an American, I<br>simply cannot not vote. Just curious on your
opinions. I'm not asking or<br>anyone to make a decision for me
;-)<br><br>A<br><br>Andrea H<br>Beaufort, SC<br><br><br>----- Original
Message ----- <br>From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:55 PM<br>Subject:
Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Yes Jim, you're right but
it's more than that. First I should point out<br>> that my kids took
three weeks out of their year to take tests proving that<br>> they have
learned what they are supposed to have learned. That's a<br>>
significant amount of time to take out of their year. If their
school<br>> doesn't improve the state may take over the
school.<br>><br>> Second, in our hurry to incorporate all children my
kids are mixed with<br>> other kids whose first language isn't English.
How is any teacher<br>supposed<br>> to teach when half the class can
barely understand what the teacher is<br

>> saying? How is any bright student supposed to stay awake and
feel<br>> challenged when they are waiting for many others to catch up?
The Salad<br>> Bowl theory ain't working folks. Throw those who aren't
competent in<br>> English into seperate classes until they are
competent. Sorry, I realize<br>> this is closer to Seperate but Equal
than it is to Brown versus the Board<br>of<br>> Education but otherwise
we are simply asking for mediocracy. Unless we<br>all<br>> speak the
same language there can be no equality in learning.<br>><br>> Third and
just as important President Bush is an idiot and Nader has gone<br>>
completely looney. On the other hand Kerry isn't exactly lighting up
the<br>> electorate.<br>><br>> As a post scrip I just saw that in Oregon
Kerry and Bush are in a dead tie<br>> with Nader taking 5%. Now I ask
you who do you suppose that 5% would go<br>to<br>> if Nader wasn't in
the race? People in Oregon are blowing me away.<br>><br>> David
Franzman<br>> A Touch of the Tropics<br>>
www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From:
"james singer" <jsinger@igc.org><br>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:53 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT] New
oleander/schools<br>><br>><br>> > Near as I can figure, the No
Child..etc. is a political answer to a<br>> > fiscal problem, and it
appears to be just as slap-dash as everything<br>> > else this
administration has dreamed up. What the schools need is more<br>> >
money so they can reduce class sizes. That will allow the teachers
to<br>> > teach rather than baby sit.<br>> ><br>> > On Tuesday, May 18,
2004, at 05:03 AM, Melody wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > DF: This is the result
of a poorly thought out and woefully<br>underfunded<br>> > > "No Child
Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our current<br>> > >
government officials. In order to continue qualifying for federal<br>> >
> financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
level<br>> > > requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of

e children<br>> > > can't make it and that prevents the school from
getting funding, then<br>> > > what is the logical step? To reduce the
level of difficulty of what is<br>> > > being taught to the lowest
common denominator, i.e. dumbing down. In<br>> > > it's purest form,
NCLB would be a godsend to the children of<br>> > > America...teaching
them to reach for the highest standards. In it's<br>> > > current
bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,<br>> > >
though...the strength of character to stand up for what you believe<br>>
> > in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course
of<br>> > > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or
call your<br>> > > local federal and state legislators and demand that
they fully fund<br>the<br>> > > NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox
now...sorry, folks!<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Melody, IA (Z
5/4)<br>> > ><br>> > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is
the mysterious."<br>> > > --Albert Einstein<br>> > ><br>> > > --- On Mon
05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>> > > From:
David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> > > To:
gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700<br>>
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> > ><br>> > > No,
no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I tell<br>>
> > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than
the<br>> > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse
is that not<br>> > > only are most of the<br>movies out of context with
the class but many<br>> > > of<br>> > > them
are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an elementary<br>> > >
school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my
daughter<br>> > > came home from school and she told me<br>that they
watched, in Spanish<br>> > > class, a Flintstones cartoon
movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did have<br>> > > Spanish subtitles. The
schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I find<br>> > > it

br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the<br>> > >
Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original Message
-----<br>> > > <br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> >
> <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004
7:35<br>PM<br>Subject:<br>> > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New
oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>what<br>> > > the
local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>> > >
Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone 8A<br>>
-----<br>> > > Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:
5/17/2004<br>> > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject:
Re: [CHAT] New<br>> > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think
the Montessori<br>> > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their
curiosity. I think<br>the<br>> > > best part--that older children<br>> >
have responsibilities in the<br>> > > education of younger
children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>intellectual<br>> > >
development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings. And
I<br>> > > think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> >
graduates<br>> > > succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On
Monday, May 17, 2004,<br>at<br>> > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com
wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message dated<br>> > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM
Central Standard Time,<br>> > > jsinger@igc.org<br>> > > writes:<br>> >
> Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a Montessori<br>> > >
school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local<br>>
> > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre<br>> >
><br>> > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > >
zem<br>> ><br>> > >> <br>> > ><br>> > >
<br>> > > <br>><br>> > >>> Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund
drive!<br>> > ><br>> > >


> ><br>> > ><br>> > Island Jim<br>> ><br>> > > Southwest Florida<br>> >
Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > >

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