Re: Re: Re: /schools

History majors are very versatile people. Since we're qualified for
absolutely nothing in particular, we have to learn to do a little bit of
everything.


Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Kitty
Sent: 5/20/2004 9:38:23 AM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

> He was also a candlestick maker in another life.

> 

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>

> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:46 AM

> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

> 

> 

> > Boy Melody, you should ask Kitty this question but, certified chef,

> > manufacturers rep, degree in American History minored in political

> science.

> > Can you tell???

> >

> > David Franzman

> > A Touch of the Tropics

> > www.atouchofthetropics.net

> > ----- Original Message ----- 

> > From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>

> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

> >

> >

> > > DF: Just out of curiosity...what did you do for a living before the

> hibs.

> > consumed you?

> > >

> > >

> > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

> > >

> > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."

> > > --Albert Einstein

> > >

> > >  --- On Thu 05/20, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:

> > > From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]

> > > To: gardenchat@hort.net

> > > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:16:47 -0700

> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

> > >

> > > It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road except

> > > with<br>two things education and health care. On the other side though

> > > I'm a<br>personal responsibility type of guy. I hate the victimization

> > > thing that we<br>have going on in this country. Typically that's an

> > > excuse which I can't<br>stand. And if they pass anymore laws trying to

> > > protect me from myself I may<br>just commit hari kari...or is that

> > > against the law?<br><br>With education you simply can't have a democracy

> > > without a well educated<br>populace. And of course diverse sources of

> > > news but that's a different<br>topic. I assure you Kitty that if J. Paul

> > > Getty's kids went to public<br>schools...they would find the

> > > money.<br><br>With health care I've spent millions of dollars on

> > > research and I'm fairly<br>certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated

> > > communities. So, we had better<br>find a way to pay for that also or not

> > > only will we have a bunch of people<br>who can't add past 2 + 2 but

> > > they'll be disease carriers as well.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of

> > > the Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original Message

> > > ----- <br>From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>To:

> > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54

> > > AM<br>Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br><br><br>> I understand your

> > > theory, David. And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded<br>> 'heated'. Not so,

> > > just speaking up.<br>><br>> However, if your theory were to be put into

> > > practice - which it can't be -<br>> there'd be less money to go around.

> > > I have no idea how many millions of<br>kids<br>> are in private schools,

> > > but if they were all sent to public schools, the<br>> system would

> > > collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes that<br>> pay

> > > for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends

> > > meet.<br>><br>> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy

> > > is choice. I don't<br>> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe

> > > those parents have the right<br>to<br>> choose that route. I also

> > > believe that if you want special schooling for<

> > >

> > > br>> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery

> > > school<br>while<br>> they are still in the womb - you can make that

> > > choice. To say NO to these<br>> choices and to private school simply

> > > because you think it could improve<br>> public schools, goes against the

> > > grain of our society. It's socialistic<br>or<br>> maybe even communistic

> > > - both systems with good ideals and properties -<br>that<br>> will not

> > > necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools

> > > must<br>fix<br>> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by

> > > choice, to consumers.<br>><br>> Also - the best and the brightest are

> > > not necessarily in private schools.<br>W<br>> went to private

> > > schools.<br>><br>> Kitty<br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>>

> > > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> To:

> > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM<br>>

> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>><br>><br>> > "Too broad a

> > > statement, David."<br>> ><br>> > Kitty, I don't want to get into a

> > > heated debate over what is simply my<br>> > belief however I don't

> > > understand why your personal experience with<br>> > parochial schools

> > > makes my statement too broad. My point was that if we<br>> > were all

> > > sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate<br>> >

> > > whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would

> > > have<br>more<br>> > concern for the welfare of public education which as

> > > you must admit<br>turns<br>> > out far more children than private.

> > > Therefore our schools would be<br>better<br>> > because there would be

> > > far more involvement by those who wield more<br>power<br>> > within our

> > > society.<br>> ><br>> > Nobody would argue that private institutions are

> > > bad places for<br>learning.<br>> > Far from it. In fact, what they do is

> > > funnel the best and the brightest<br>> out<br>> > of the public school

> > > system and even worse take the most powerful people<br>> in<br>> > the

> > > country and make public education not their problem.<br>> ><br>> ><br>>

> > > > David Franzman<br>> > A Touch of the Tropics<br>> > w

> > >

> > > ww

> > > .atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> >

> > > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>>

> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]

> > > /schools<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult life:

> > > Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country.<br>> > >

> > > Too broad a statement, David.<br>> > > Speaking from my experience of 12

> > > years of parochial school, which is<br>> > > private school, but not

> > > quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids<br>> > would<br>> > >

> > > attend.......<br>> > > I was able to receive a good education with, I

> > > believe, less of the<br>> > > interuptions you mentioned in another

> > > post. Baby-sitting didn't<br>happen<br>> in<br>> > > my classes. Can't

> > > behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition for<br>3<br>> of<br>> > >

> > > us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that

> > > pay<br>> > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the

> > > govt, and yet<br>> they<br>> > > do not make use of funds that the govt

> > > has assigned for public<br>schools.<br>> > For<br>> > > 12 yrs x 3, my

> > > folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they<br>> paid<br>> >

> > > > tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not our<br>>

> > > fault<br>> > > they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they too

> > > would have<br>> > attended<br>> > > parochial school.<br>> > ><br>> > >

> > > Kitty<br>> > ><br>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > From:

> > > "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> > > To:

> > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM<br>>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > > Melody

> > > (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a<br>> >

> > > soapbox<br>> > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in the

> > > reality. The<br>> > reality<br>> > > > is that there are far too many

> > > students in California who don't care<br>> and<br>> > > > whose parents

> > > don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact<br>> is<br>> > >

> > > that<br>> >

> > >

> > > > > there is only so much money and resources and the way we

> > > casually<br>> spend<br>> > > > money in this country insures a bleak

> > > future for education.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult

> > > life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country. They

> > > guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and<br>> Warren<br>> > > >

> > > Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this<br>> >

> > > discussion<br>> > > > right now. But as long as we don't we lose untold

> > > thousands of<br>bright<br>> > > kids<br>> > > > who don't have the

> > > resources to a good education and hence fall<br>> through<br>> > >

> > > the<br>> > > > cracks.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > David Franzman<br>> > > > A

> > > Touch of the Tropics<br>> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > > >

> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > > From: "Melody"

> > > <mhobertm@excite.com><br>> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > >

> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM<br>> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]

> > > New oleander/schools<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > DF: This is the

> > > result of a poorly thought out and woefully<br>> > underfunded<br>> > >

> > > > > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our

> > > current<br>> > > > > government officials. In order to continue

> > > qualifying for federal<br>> > > > > financial aid for school districts,

> > > each school must meet grade<br>> level<br>> > > > > requirements, you

> > > know. Well, if a certain percentage of the<br>> children<br>> > > > >

> > > can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,<br>>

> > > then<br>> > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of

> > > difficulty of<br>what<br>> is<br>> > > > > being taught to the lowest

> > > common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.<br>In<br>> > > > > it's purest

> > > form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of<br>> > > > >

> > > America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards.

> > > In<br>it's<br>> > > > > current bastardized version, it's a nightmare!

> > > Political action,<br>> > > > > though...the strength of character to

> > > stand up for what you<br>believe<br>> > > > > in...is the

> > >

> > >  o

> > > nly thing that will change this unfortunate course of<br>> > > > >

> > > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or

> > > call<br>your<br>> > > > > local federal and state legislators and demand

> > > that they fully<br>fund<br>> > the<br>> > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off the

> > > soapbox now...sorry, folks!<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>>

> > > > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > "The most beautiful

> > > thing we can experience is the mysterious."<br>> > > > > --Albert

> > > Einstein<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman <

> > > dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>> > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto:

> > > dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > > > >

> > > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700<br>> > > > > Subject: Re: Re:

> > > [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > No, no, no Pam!

> > > It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I<br>> tell<br>> > > > >

> > > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies

> > > than<br>the<br>> > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival.

> > > What's worse is that<br>> not<br>> > > > > only are most of

> > > the<br>movies out of context with the class but<br>> many<br>> > of<br>>

> > > > > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about

> > > an<br>elementary<br>> > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d'

> > > grace was when my<br>daughter<br>> > > > > came home from school and she

> > > told me<br>that they watched, in<br>> Spanish<br>> > > > > class, a

> > > Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did<br>have<br>> > > >

> > > > Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I<br>>

> > > find<br>> > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of

> > > the<br>> > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>-----

> > > Original<br>> Message -----<br>> > > > > <br>From:

> > > <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> > > > >

> > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35<br>> >

> > > PM<br>Subject:<br>> > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New

> > > oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>> > what<br>> > > > >

> > > the local public schools produc

> > >

> > > e here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>> > > > > Appalling.<br>><br>>

> > > Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone<br>8A<br>> -----<br>> > > > > Original

> > > Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:<br>5/17/2004<br>> > > >

> > > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re:

> > > [CHAT]<br>New<br>> > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I

> > > think the Montessori<br>> > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring

> > > out their curiosity. I<br>think<br>> > the<br>> > > > > best part--that

> > > older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the<br>> > > > >

> > > education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>> >

> > > intellectual<br>> > > > > development that simply does not occur in

> > > other<br>> > settings.<br>And<br>> I<br>> > > > > think that is why a

> > > high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates<br>> > > > > succeed at

> > > university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,<br>2004,<br>> >

> > > at<br>> > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a

> > > message dated<br>> > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard

> > > Time,<br>> > ><br>jsinger@igc.org<br>> > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms.

> > > Fatma teaches the primary grades in a<br>> Montessori<br>> > > > >

> > > school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local<br>>

> > > > > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre<br>> >

> > > > > ><br>> > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>>

> > > > > zem<br>><br>><br>> > > > > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>

> > > ><br>><br>>

> >

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> > > Island<br>Jim<br>><br>> ><br>> > > > > Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone

> > > 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>><br>><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>

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