Re: /schools
Ah, now that I understand, I guess.........
Andrea H
Beaufort, SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "james singer" <jsinger@igc.org>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> Yeah, does vary by locality. That's just one of the problems with it.
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2004, at 01:17 PM, ""
> <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com> wrote:
>
> > First of all you are HARDLY an ignoramus missy! Puh-lease. Here in
> > Texas, instead of sending your kid to public school the state gives you
> > a voucher good for enrollment in an accredited private school. Don't
> > know the exact dynamics since my child doesn't need school (for Liz's
> > benefit - my child is a large spayed female cat named Sugar). But I
> > don't know if the voucher thing varies from state to state or not.
> >
> >
> > Pam Evans
> > Kemp, TX
> > zone 8A
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andrea H
> > Sent: 5/20/2004 7:22:32 PM
> > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> >> At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, what is a voucher? (yes I
> >> know
> >> what a voucher is, but I mean in regards to school)
> >>
> >> I don't have kids, don't really know any school age kids or parents
> >> that
> >> have them, so this is new to me.
> >>
> >> A
> >>
> >> Andrea H
> >> Beaufort, SC
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "cathy carpenter" <cathyc@rnet.com>
> >> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:04 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>
> >>
> >>> At risk of being strung up, I think that there is much to be said for
> >>> vouchers. Why shouldn't parents decide where to send their children?
> >>> Especially if they are not happy with what is produced by the public
> >>> education system? Its called putting money where your mouth is. Why
> >>> should the super wealthy be the only ones to have that privilege?
> >>> Cathy
> >>> On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Kitty wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I understand your theory, David. And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded
> >>>> 'heated'. Not so, just speaking up.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it
> >>>> can't
> >>>> be -
> >>>> there'd be less money to go around. I have no idea how many millions
> >>>> of kids
> >>>> are in private schools, but if they were all sent to public schools,
> >>>> the
> >>>> system would collapse. Public schools are using the funds from
> >>>> taxes
> >>>> that
> >>>> pay for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends
> >>>> meet.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice. I
> >>>> don't
> >>>> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the
> >>>> right to
> >>>> choose that route. I also believe that if you want special
> >>>> schooling
> >>>> for
> >>>> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery
> >>>> school
> >>>> while
> >>>> they are still in the womb - you can make that choice. To say NO to
> >>>> these
> >>>> choices and to private school simply because you think it could
> >>>> improve
> >>>> public schools, goes against the grain of our society. It's
> >>>> socialistic or
> >>>> maybe even communistic - both systems with good ideals and
> >>>> properties
> >>>> - that
> >>>> will not necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools
> >>>> must fix
> >>>> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to
> >>>> consumers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also - the best and the brightest are not necessarily in private
> >>>> schools. W
> >>>> went to private schools.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kitty
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> >>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Too broad a statement, David."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kitty, I don't want to get into a heated debate over what is
> >>>>> simply my
> >>>>> belief however I don't understand why your personal experience with
> >>>>> parochial schools makes my statement too broad. My point was that
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of
> >>>>> separate
> >>>>> whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> concern for the welfare of public education which as you must admit
> >>>>> turns
> >>>>> out far more children than private. Therefore our schools would be
> >>>>> better
> >>>>> because there would be far more involvement by those who wield more
> >>>>> power
> >>>>> within our society.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nobody would argue that private institutions are bad places for
> >>>>> learning.
> >>>>> Far from it. In fact, what they do is funnel the best and the
> >>>>> brightest
> >>>> out
> >>>>> of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful
> >>>>> people
> >>>> in
> >>>>> the country and make public education not their problem.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Franzman
> >>>>> A Touch of the Tropics
> >>>>> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> >>>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've said this all my adult life: Private schools are the bane
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>> this
> >>>>>>> country.
> >>>>>> Too broad a statement, David.
> >>>>>> Speaking from my experience of 12 years of parochial school,
> >>>>>> which is
> >>>>>> private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's
> >>>>>> kids
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>> attend.......
> >>>>>> I was able to receive a good education with, I believe, less of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> interuptions you mentioned in another post. Baby-sitting didn't
> >>>>>> happen
> >>>> in
> >>>>>> my classes. Can't behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition
> >>>>>> for 3
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that
> >>>>>> pay
> >>>>>> tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and
> >>>>>> yet
> >>>> they
> >>>>>> do not make use of funds that the govt has assigned for public
> >>>>>> schools.
> >>>>> For
> >>>>>> 12 yrs x 3, my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND
> >>>>>> they
> >>>> paid
> >>>>>> tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not
> >>>>>> our
> >>>> fault
> >>>>>> they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they too would have
> >>>>> attended
> >>>>>> parochial school.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kitty
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> >>>>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Melody (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>> soapbox
> >>>>>>> for political agendas) I think the problem is in the reality.
> >>>>>>> The
> >>>>> reality
> >>>>>>> is that there are far too many students in California who don't
> >>>>>>> care
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> whose parents don't care whether they get an education or not.
> >>>>>>> Fact
> >>>> is
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> there is only so much money and resources and the way we casually
> >>>> spend
> >>>>>>> money in this country insures a bleak future for education.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've said this all my adult life: Private schools are the bane
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>> this
> >>>>>>> country. They guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and
> >>>> Warren
> >>>>>>> Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this
> >>>>> discussion
> >>>>>>> right now. But as long as we don't we lose untold thousands of
> >>>>>>> bright
> >>>>>> kids
> >>>>>>> who don't have the resources to a good education and hence fall
> >>>> through
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> cracks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David Franzman
> >>>>>>> A Touch of the Tropics
> >>>>>>> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> >>>>>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and woefully
> >>>>> underfunded
> >>>>>>>> "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our
> >>>>>>>> current
> >>>>>>>> government officials. In order to continue qualifying for
> >>>>>>>> federal
> >>>>>>>> financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
> >>>> level
> >>>>>>>> requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the
> >>>> children
> >>>>>>>> can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,
> >>>> then
> >>>>>>>> what is the logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of
> >>>>>>>> what
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>>> being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing
> >>>>>>>> down.
> >>>>>>>> In
> >>>>>>>> it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of
> >>>>>>>> America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards. In
> >>>>>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>> current bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,
> >>>>>>>> though...the strength of character to stand up for what you
> >>>>>>>> believe
> >>>>>>>> in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course
> >>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call
> >>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>> local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully
> >>>>>>>> fund
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry, folks!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> >>>>>>>> --Albert Einstein
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net >
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> >>>>>>>> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could
> >>>>>>>> I
> >>>> tell
> >>>>>>>> you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>> not
> >>>>>>>> only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class but
> >>>> many
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an
> >>>>>>>> elementary
> >>>>>>>> school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my
> >>>>>>>> daughter
> >>>>>>>> came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched, in
> >>>> Spanish
> >>>>>>>> class, a Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did
> >>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and
> >>>>>>>> I
> >>>> find
> >>>>>>>> it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the
> >>>>>>>> Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original
> >>>> Message -----
> >>>>>>>> <br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:
> >>>>>>>> <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35
> >>>>> PM<br>Subject:
> >>>>>>>> Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've
> >>>>>>>> seen
> >>>>> what
> >>>>>>>> the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/
> >>>>>>>> that?
> >>>>>>>> Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone 8A<br>>
> >>>>>>>> -----
> >>>>>>>> Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:
> >>>>>>>> 5/17/2004
> >>>>>>>> 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT]
> >>>>>>>> New
> >>>>>>>> oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori
> >>>>>>>> environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I
> >>>>>>>> think
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> best part--that older children<br>> > have responsibilities in
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of
> >>>>> intellectual
> >>>>>>>> development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings.
> >>>>>>>> And
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>>> think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> >
> >>>>>>>> graduates
> >>>>>>>> succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,
> >>>>>>>> 2004,
> >>>>> at
> >>>>>>>> 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message
> >>>>>>>> dated
> >>>>>>>> 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> > >
> >>>>>>>> jsinger@igc.org
> >>>>>>>> writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a
> >>>> Montessori
> >>>>>>>> school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our
> >>>>>>>> local
> >>>>>>>> Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > >
> >>>>>>>> zem<br>> >
> >>>>>>>>> <br>> > >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>>>> Jim<br>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>>
> >>>>>>>> ><br>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> Island Jim
> Southwest Florida
> Zone 10
> 27.0 N, 82.4 W
>
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